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Nothing about this looks great. Margins and Paddings feel "off". Heading 6 is too small to read comfortably on desktop (even worse on mobile). The text font is

Nothing about this looks great. Margins and Paddings feel "off". Heading 6 is too small to read comfortably on desktop (even worse on mobile). The text font is too thin and the entire site feels tiring to read in contrast with the white background. The entire content column is only 600 pixels wide on my 1080p monitor, so you'd need to scroll a lot for long texts. It's also weirdly off-center. This entire idea is about size first and second, accessibility and look go dead last. There is no advantage to using 58 bytes only. Just use 14KB if you care that much, which is the size the first 10 TCP packets that your server sends to the client before the first ACK anyway [1]. [1]: https://www.tunetheweb.com/blog/critical-resources-and-the-first-14kb/ https://www.tunetheweb.com/blog/critical-resources-and-the-f...

markdown 4y ago
> It's also weirdly off-center. It isn't. Just looks that way because the first few sentences are short.
- tomjakubowski 4y ago
  (and contain long words without smart hyphenation, so they wrap weirdly)
nmilo 4y ago
If it's 58 bytes it can fit inline into your 14kB HTML file.
- peanut_worm 4y ago
  youd be better off using default browser styling than this
  - TheRealPomax 4y ago
    You're arguing over 58 bytes. If someone just wants a minimalistic page, setting a centered body with max-width is step 1. If you stop after step 1, cool. If not: your page is probably going to look better. However, there is a marked difference between "the content is centered in the browser with whitespace on the sides" and the browser default "it's on the left with all the whitespace on the right". The first one wins. That _should_ have been the browser default in absence of a stylesheet rel, but CSS was born when screens were majestically tiny and the idea of a 24" widescreen was literally a vapourware joke, so it wasn't, and so it never will.
  - bhaak 4y ago
    Default browser styling sucks tremendously for mobile browsers.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  So can 5,800 or 13,580 bytes, which seemed to be the point.
- selfmodruntime 4y ago
  This makes zero sense because HTML is streamed from Server to Client and interpreted as a byte stream. You want to include blocking content in the first 14KB. The rest doesn‘t matter all that much.
kbenson 4y ago
> The entire content column is only 600 pixels wide on my 1080p monitor Hot take - we need to get over maximizing browser windows. We aren't often using 14" screens anymore, and neither are we browsing at 480p. We're rapidly approaching the point where it just makes no sense, yet people persist in old habits and then can't see that their (now) counterproductive behaviors are causing some of their problems. I switched to a 40" 4k TV a few years back. It took me a while to break myself of wanting to maximize things, but I had to because the screen is on a desk in front of me, and it's close enough that it's impossible to focus on all at once. I often use a quarter of it for an equivalent 1080p screen, but far more often I'm just throwing windows where I want sized for what I want, zoomed to appropriate comfort, because it's a wall of screen in front of me and ignoring that is counterproductive. If you have a small screen and you want to maximize windows because of that and the website you're looking at isn't using the space effectively, zoom it. All the browsers support zoom now. Stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
- croes 4y ago
  So you are saying the user should adapt to the style and not the content to the user.
  - kbenson 4y ago
    Concessions can and be made on both sides, and expecting to be use ever larger and wider screens and expecting to still be able to maxi my ise windows is reaching an inflection point where it makes less and less sense, so docking point from a design which doesn't cater to poor habits is sort of silly. But what I was actually saying is less to do with the design in question and was more about people letting habits continue past the point of them being useful and sometimes well past the point of being harmful. What spurred my statement could have had nothing to do with some new design (and this isn't the first time I've stated it). Another way to look at it is that I can and have made this statement in isolation to design, in a discussion that was more about maximizing windows in the general case. Linking it too closely to the design in question would be to miss a lot of the point I was trying to make.
- cantSpellSober 4y ago

markdown 4y ago

> It's also weirdly off-center. It isn't. Just looks that way because the first few sentences are short.

tomjakubowski 4y ago
(and contain long words without smart hyphenation, so they wrap weirdly)

nmilo 4y ago

If it's 58 bytes it can fit inline into your 14kB HTML file.

peanut_worm 4y ago
youd be better off using default browser styling than this
- TheRealPomax 4y ago
  You're arguing over 58 bytes. If someone just wants a minimalistic page, setting a centered body with max-width is step 1. If you stop after step 1, cool. If not: your page is probably going to look better. However, there is a marked difference between "the content is centered in the browser with whitespace on the sides" and the browser default "it's on the left with all the whitespace on the right". The first one wins. That _should_ have been the browser default in absence of a stylesheet rel, but CSS was born when screens were majestically tiny and the idea of a 24" widescreen was literally a vapourware joke, so it wasn't, and so it never will.
- bhaak 4y ago
  Default browser styling sucks tremendously for mobile browsers.
IncRnd 4y ago
So can 5,800 or 13,580 bytes, which seemed to be the point.
selfmodruntime 4y ago
This makes zero sense because HTML is streamed from Server to Client and interpreted as a byte stream. You want to include blocking content in the first 14KB. The rest doesn‘t matter all that much.

kbenson 4y ago

> The entire content column is only 600 pixels wide on my 1080p monitor Hot take - we need to get over maximizing browser windows. We aren't often using 14" screens anymore, and neither are we browsing at 480p. We're rapidly approaching the point where it just makes no sense, yet people persist in old habits and then can't see that their (now) counterproductive behaviors are causing some of their problems. I switched to a 40" 4k TV a few years back. It took me a while to break myself of wanting to maximize things, but I had to because the screen is on a desk in front of me, and it's close enough that it's impossible to focus on all at once. I often use a quarter of it for an equivalent 1080p screen, but far more often I'm just throwing windows where I want sized for what I want, zoomed to appropriate comfort, because it's a wall of screen in front of me and ignoring that is counterproductive. If you have a small screen and you want to maximize windows because of that and the website you're looking at isn't using the space effectively, zoom it. All the browsers support zoom now. Stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

croes 4y ago
So you are saying the user should adapt to the style and not the content to the user.
- kbenson 4y ago
  Concessions can and be made on both sides, and expecting to be use ever larger and wider screens and expecting to still be able to maxi my ise windows is reaching an inflection point where it makes less and less sense, so docking point from a design which doesn't cater to poor habits is sort of silly. But what I was actually saying is less to do with the design in question and was more about people letting habits continue past the point of them being useful and sometimes well past the point of being harmful. What spurred my statement could have had nothing to do with some new design (and this isn't the first time I've stated it). Another way to look at it is that I can and have made this statement in isolation to design, in a discussion that was more about maximizing windows in the general case. Linking it too closely to the design in question would be to miss a lot of the point I was trying to make.
cantSpellSober 4y ago