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Nier Automata is possibly the greatest video game ever made, definitely in my top 10. Reading through this thread it's pretty clear most people who disliked it

Nier Automata is possibly the greatest video game ever made, definitely in my top 10. Reading through this thread it's pretty clear most people who disliked it stopped before the first ending. I think the main issue is that the actual gameplay is the weakest part of the whole package, without the world building, story and experimental mechanics it's just a decentish rpg. It's really easy to miss the good parts (by design?) by stopping early or not interacting much with npcs.

mackatap 4y ago
I find it fascinating you could sonsider a game to be the greatest of all time when the gameplay itself isn't good. Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. The greatest car, except for the driving. The greatest winter coat, except for staying warm.
- Jack000 4y ago
  It's really not important. If I want to play a "fun" game I'd go for mario kart. Nier is not very accessible and it's better for it. Also, the gameplay is not bad, just generic.
  - k__ 4y ago
    [this is what game journalists actually believe]
- AjaxGb 4y ago
  I could easily imagine someone who considers a movie to be the greatest of all time but to have a weak plot. A movie that is such a tour-de-force visually that it blows the plot out of the water, or a movie that focuses carefully on a character study without telling much of a story, or an arthouse film that stirs the emotions while making no sense from a linear summary perspective. Like video games, movies can have many more components than just the story being told.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    They made that movie. It's called Tree Of Life and it sucks.
    - thatguy0900 4y ago
      It's also called avatar, which cared so little for the plot the mcguffin they were trying to get was called unobtanium.
      - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
        Haha! I'd never thought of that, but right you are.
- Dudeman112 4y ago
  >Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? It's an artist's medium. The most important part is what it does to who consumes it
- xani_ 4y ago
  He said "weakest part", not bad.It was just decent. It wasn't up to level of say Bayonetta but it was a good combat system. > It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. There are many movies people hold in great regard with just okay plot. Execution matters a great thing > The greatest car, except for the driving. If you want luxury you don't care about driving feel > The greatest winter coat, except for staying warm If you care for fashion, not freezing in -10C is "good enough", don't need to survive Syberian winters
- Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
  > Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? Not really. Gameplay is a part of the game and it can have multiple effects. It can reinforce the themes, see for example a game where you are meant to be strong the gameplay can make you feel like a god. Or if you are a fast robot pilot like Titan Fall 2 then the gameplay can be fast and acrobatic. Or it can be at odds with the story. Plenty of games about cooperation or pacifism etc randomly have fight mechanics because they sell well. See for example Last of Us telling a moving story about humanity and then having sections where you mow down humans like crazy. And finally there are games where the gameplay serves the emotion behind it, Nier, like for example Shadow of the Colossus or Death Stranding, the gameplay is there to make you feel something or help you feel something. If the gameplay was insanely intricate like Devil May Cry then the themes would not resonate as much. Its not like Hideo Kojima doesn't know how to make a character walk properly, but the clunky walking makes feeling relieved when you find help in death stranding mean something.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    Hideo Kojima makes interesting movies other half finished game layers
- pid-1 4y ago
  Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite games and the gameplay is absolutely terrible!
  - ceceron 4y ago
    Ok, now I'm lost. What does the "gameplay" word mean for you? Planescape had IMHO am amazing gameplay. Good example of a great RPG with terrible combat system was Arcanum but even there the gameplay was great (except the combat).
    - pid-1 4y ago
      I remember being quite annoyed by pretty much everything that wasn't the story: combat, inventory management, pathfinding...
      - ceceron 4y ago
        I had completely different experience. Pathfinding and inventory - honestly I don't remember, they didn't stay in the way. Not more than in any contemporary game. Combat wasn't in the center, but was fair and challenging enough to blend into the narrative. The gameplay was designed to facilitate the story-telling in a way to put the player as an agent in the epic tragedy. I hate modern narrative-heavy games deciding to remove the gameplay to focus on the story/atmosphere. Movies/books are much better mediums for this kind of entertainment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  > It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. 2001 A Space Odyssey is probably a good example of this - it has very little plot, and it gets quickly resolved, but it is nevertheless an extraordinary movie that many love dearly, and for good reason I think.
meibo 4y ago
I get what you're saying, but if the gameplay/design doesn't support it in any way, it doesn't matter how good the story is. I feel like I went through it a little quick and then basically got softlocked at one of the later bosses in my first playthrough, since they take away all of your equipment when you die, which is supremely frustrating, and they won't let you buy any more supplies to prepare in that save since all of the shops are closed due to the boss... Must have given up after 15-20 tries and never touched it again.
- Jack000 4y ago
  I think I had this problem too, but got through it after a few tries. I strongly dislike mechanically hard video games but didn't find Nier particularly difficult. Most modern video games give me the feeling that I've played the exact same game before, just in lower resolution. Nier is one of the few that feels like it's doing something original.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  Similar here, lost interest after getting killed by that crane thing two or three times and getting sent back to the beginning to grind my way through a bunch of grind. Maybe I can find all the good parts cut together into a single video online: that sounds more attractive than slogging through the game version.
- Lammy 4y ago
  If you ever pick it back up, try maxing out on HP-healing defense chips. There are chips that heal a set amount of HP per second, heal a percentage of damage dealt, heal a percentage of damage absorbed, etc, and you can use all of them at the same time: https://nierautomata.wiki.fextralife.com/Defense+Chips https://nierautomata.wiki.fextralife.com/Defense+Chips I had the same problem you describe and kept dying from just the gangs of hub-area mobs when I was extremely low-level. It was honestly a huge letdown at the time. The original NieR (story, not gameplay) was more influential and personally important to me than any other piece of fiction in any medium I can think of. It was never a popular or well-reviewed game, so the announcement of a sequel was a total shock and sent me into Automata with unreal levels of hype. Day 1 buy on PC despite the port quality (quickly fixed by fan patch!), but no matter how I approached it felt like the very basic act of playing the game was preventing me from “getting” Automata’s story. I knew I wouldn’t get a good experience just watching somebody’s longplay either, so I felt stuck. Then I stumbled on the Most Important Detail that was not obvious to me at all on my first (only, so far) playthrough: where to go to unlock additional chip capacity, and when the option to do so became available. I probably just missed a mention of it in a prior Bunker comm. The greyed-out expanded chip meter made it obvious it would be possible at some point, but I was too afraid of spoilers to look it up at that point in my playthrough. I found it by accident when I was walking around the Bunker trying to talk to all the Operators. (Thanks, 6O!) You have to visit the Bunker, walk around to the Maintenance Shop, and find the upgrade terminal on the far side of that room. Not hidden at all, but I didn’t figure this out until almost all the way through the initial [redacted] and am still not sure how early it becomes available. Maybe it is as soon as the Bunker itself is? idk, plus you have to play for a while to afford anything. Endless min-maxing possibilities open up after that, plus fresh incentive to leave no online player’s corpse unturned in the hunt for more and higher-level chips. Getting that chipped HP buffer gave me the breathing room I needed to actually get into the Platinum-style combat for the first time ever. I’d always admired the Bayonetta games/characters, but same problem with them minus the drive to push through it for story’s sake. Maybe I’ll eventually give them another chance too :) https://youtu.be/BZuIh6qqkaU https://youtu.be/BZuIh6qqkaU (TW: Tuber voice)
ElfinTrousers 4y ago
> Nier Automata is possibly the greatest video game ever made I can state definitively that it is not, mainly because it has the misfortune to exist in the same world as Disco Elysium.
- hhjinks 4y ago
  Disco Elysium is an excellent game, but it doesn't stand out all that much in the sea of text heavy video games. It could be the best story ever told, but Nier: Autoamta would still be the better video game, because it itself tells a very compelling story, undeniably in the upper echelons of the medium, while also, and this is the most important part, actually melding gameplay, plot, and real life interpersonal relationships in a way no other game has done. Every single aspect of Nier: Automata hinges on and is uplifted by it being interactive. What Nier: Automata does is wholly unique, it could only be done because it's interactive, and everything it does is great or better. That is why it's possibly the greatest video game ever made. No other games has reached those heights.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    I might look into it again--does the gameplay evolve past button-mash combat at any point?
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Somewhat. But the first zone, where dying resets everything, is by far the most unpleasant in the entire game. Talk about putting your worst foot forward. It's a game that also requires a lot of patience (too much patience) to actually get to the truly good parts - especially the baffling decision to make you run the initial campaign twice with very little variation, before opening up more. But it does have excellent moments and is excellent at invoking emotions from places you would never expect - especially with the final ending. Edit to add: the gameplay quite frequently switches between button-mash combat and bullet hell (especially, but not exclusively, in the hacking mini-game), with various camera styles mixed in for both. It actually has quite a lot of variation on these two themes, and possibly a few more I'm forgetting.
packetlost 4y ago
NieR Automata is one of the most amazing pieces of storytelling I've ever encountered. The gameplay is meh. I love it, personally, but it's really nothing special. But what it does do is provides an interactive enough environment for the player to experience the story.

mackatap 4y ago

I find it fascinating you could sonsider a game to be the greatest of all time when the gameplay itself isn't good. Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. The greatest car, except for the driving. The greatest winter coat, except for staying warm.

Jack000 4y ago
It's really not important. If I want to play a "fun" game I'd go for mario kart. Nier is not very accessible and it's better for it. Also, the gameplay is not bad, just generic.
- k__ 4y ago
  [this is what game journalists actually believe]
AjaxGb 4y ago
I could easily imagine someone who considers a movie to be the greatest of all time but to have a weak plot. A movie that is such a tour-de-force visually that it blows the plot out of the water, or a movie that focuses carefully on a character study without telling much of a story, or an arthouse film that stirs the emotions while making no sense from a linear summary perspective. Like video games, movies can have many more components than just the story being told.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  They made that movie. It's called Tree Of Life and it sucks.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    It's also called avatar, which cared so little for the plot the mcguffin they were trying to get was called unobtanium.
    - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
      Haha! I'd never thought of that, but right you are.
Dudeman112 4y ago
>Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? It's an artist's medium. The most important part is what it does to who consumes it
xani_ 4y ago
He said "weakest part", not bad.It was just decent. It wasn't up to level of say Bayonetta but it was a good combat system. > It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. There are many movies people hold in great regard with just okay plot. Execution matters a great thing > The greatest car, except for the driving. If you want luxury you don't care about driving feel > The greatest winter coat, except for staying warm If you care for fashion, not freezing in -10C is "good enough", don't need to survive Syberian winters
Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
> Is gameplay not the most important part of a game? Not really. Gameplay is a part of the game and it can have multiple effects. It can reinforce the themes, see for example a game where you are meant to be strong the gameplay can make you feel like a god. Or if you are a fast robot pilot like Titan Fall 2 then the gameplay can be fast and acrobatic. Or it can be at odds with the story. Plenty of games about cooperation or pacifism etc randomly have fight mechanics because they sell well. See for example Last of Us telling a moving story about humanity and then having sections where you mow down humans like crazy. And finally there are games where the gameplay serves the emotion behind it, Nier, like for example Shadow of the Colossus or Death Stranding, the gameplay is there to make you feel something or help you feel something. If the gameplay was insanely intricate like Devil May Cry then the themes would not resonate as much. Its not like Hideo Kojima doesn't know how to make a character walk properly, but the clunky walking makes feeling relieved when you find help in death stranding mean something.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Hideo Kojima makes interesting movies other half finished game layers
pid-1 4y ago
Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite games and the gameplay is absolutely terrible!
- ceceron 4y ago
  Ok, now I'm lost. What does the "gameplay" word mean for you? Planescape had IMHO am amazing gameplay. Good example of a great RPG with terrible combat system was Arcanum but even there the gameplay was great (except the combat).
  - pid-1 4y ago
    I remember being quite annoyed by pretty much everything that wasn't the story: combat, inventory management, pathfinding...
    - ceceron 4y ago
      I had completely different experience. Pathfinding and inventory - honestly I don't remember, they didn't stay in the way. Not more than in any contemporary game. Combat wasn't in the center, but was fair and challenging enough to blend into the narrative. The gameplay was designed to facilitate the story-telling in a way to put the player as an agent in the epic tragedy. I hate modern narrative-heavy games deciding to remove the gameplay to focus on the story/atmosphere. Movies/books are much better mediums for this kind of entertainment.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tsimionescu 4y ago
> It's like saying the greatest movie of all time, except for the plot. 2001 A Space Odyssey is probably a good example of this - it has very little plot, and it gets quickly resolved, but it is nevertheless an extraordinary movie that many love dearly, and for good reason I think.

meibo 4y ago

I get what you're saying, but if the gameplay/design doesn't support it in any way, it doesn't matter how good the story is. I feel like I went through it a little quick and then basically got softlocked at one of the later bosses in my first playthrough, since they take away all of your equipment when you die, which is supremely frustrating, and they won't let you buy any more supplies to prepare in that save since all of the shops are closed due to the boss... Must have given up after 15-20 tries and never touched it again.

Jack000 4y ago
I think I had this problem too, but got through it after a few tries. I strongly dislike mechanically hard video games but didn't find Nier particularly difficult. Most modern video games give me the feeling that I've played the exact same game before, just in lower resolution. Nier is one of the few that feels like it's doing something original.
ElfinTrousers 4y ago
Similar here, lost interest after getting killed by that crane thing two or three times and getting sent back to the beginning to grind my way through a bunch of grind. Maybe I can find all the good parts cut together into a single video online: that sounds more attractive than slogging through the game version.
Lammy 4y ago
If you ever pick it back up, try maxing out on HP-healing defense chips. There are chips that heal a set amount of HP per second, heal a percentage of damage dealt, heal a percentage of damage absorbed, etc, and you can use all of them at the same time: https://nierautomata.wiki.fextralife.com/Defense+Chips https://nierautomata.wiki.fextralife.com/Defense+Chips I had the same problem you describe and kept dying from just the gangs of hub-area mobs when I was extremely low-level. It was honestly a huge letdown at the time. The original NieR (story, not gameplay) was more influential and personally important to me than any other piece of fiction in any medium I can think of. It was never a popular or well-reviewed game, so the announcement of a sequel was a total shock and sent me into Automata with unreal levels of hype. Day 1 buy on PC despite the port quality (quickly fixed by fan patch!), but no matter how I approached it felt like the very basic act of playing the game was preventing me from “getting” Automata’s story. I knew I wouldn’t get a good experience just watching somebody’s longplay either, so I felt stuck. Then I stumbled on the Most Important Detail that was not obvious to me at all on my first (only, so far) playthrough: where to go to unlock additional chip capacity, and when the option to do so became available. I probably just missed a mention of it in a prior Bunker comm. The greyed-out expanded chip meter made it obvious it would be possible at some point, but I was too afraid of spoilers to look it up at that point in my playthrough. I found it by accident when I was walking around the Bunker trying to talk to all the Operators. (Thanks, 6O!) You have to visit the Bunker, walk around to the Maintenance Shop, and find the upgrade terminal on the far side of that room. Not hidden at all, but I didn’t figure this out until almost all the way through the initial [redacted] and am still not sure how early it becomes available. Maybe it is as soon as the Bunker itself is? idk, plus you have to play for a while to afford anything. Endless min-maxing possibilities open up after that, plus fresh incentive to leave no online player’s corpse unturned in the hunt for more and higher-level chips. Getting that chipped HP buffer gave me the breathing room I needed to actually get into the Platinum-style combat for the first time ever. I’d always admired the Bayonetta games/characters, but same problem with them minus the drive to push through it for story’s sake. Maybe I’ll eventually give them another chance too :) https://youtu.be/BZuIh6qqkaU https://youtu.be/BZuIh6qqkaU (TW: Tuber voice)

ElfinTrousers 4y ago

> Nier Automata is possibly the greatest video game ever made I can state definitively that it is not, mainly because it has the misfortune to exist in the same world as Disco Elysium.

hhjinks 4y ago
Disco Elysium is an excellent game, but it doesn't stand out all that much in the sea of text heavy video games. It could be the best story ever told, but Nier: Autoamta would still be the better video game, because it itself tells a very compelling story, undeniably in the upper echelons of the medium, while also, and this is the most important part, actually melding gameplay, plot, and real life interpersonal relationships in a way no other game has done. Every single aspect of Nier: Automata hinges on and is uplifted by it being interactive. What Nier: Automata does is wholly unique, it could only be done because it's interactive, and everything it does is great or better. That is why it's possibly the greatest video game ever made. No other games has reached those heights.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  I might look into it again--does the gameplay evolve past button-mash combat at any point?
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    Somewhat. But the first zone, where dying resets everything, is by far the most unpleasant in the entire game. Talk about putting your worst foot forward. It's a game that also requires a lot of patience (too much patience) to actually get to the truly good parts - especially the baffling decision to make you run the initial campaign twice with very little variation, before opening up more. But it does have excellent moments and is excellent at invoking emotions from places you would never expect - especially with the final ending. Edit to add: the gameplay quite frequently switches between button-mash combat and bullet hell (especially, but not exclusively, in the hacking mini-game), with various camera styles mixed in for both. It actually has quite a lot of variation on these two themes, and possibly a few more I'm forgetting.

packetlost 4y ago

NieR Automata is one of the most amazing pieces of storytelling I've ever encountered. The gameplay is meh. I love it, personally, but it's really nothing special. But what it does do is provides an interactive enough environment for the player to experience the story.