4 ms·

Ok, but France exists.

by orangecat 4y ago

megaman821 4y ago
I doubt Americans would be happy paying what France pays for electricity (both directly and government aid).
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  I mean, if the choice is expensive electricity and rolling blackouts because the entire country relied on unreliable sources of energy, I'd take the former. The best energy source is one that's robust and dependable, not one that's theoretically cheaper in some ideal circumstances.
- psd1 4y ago
  Right, but non-monetary negative outcomes are swept under the rug. It costs nothing for fossil plant operators to pump carbon and sulphur into the atmosphere; that's why it takes regulation to make them install scrubbers. Scrubbers help, but don't prevent the outcome. The outcome can be measured in human deaths and loss of arable land. That cost is hidden. The "free market" is a grim joke while these costs can be ignored.
jjoonathan 4y ago
Also 20% of the US's electric grid for the last 30 years.
fweimer 4y ago
EDF has recently been re-nationalized, and has always been under strong government influence. It's not a good example of a civilian/free market nuclear power plant operator.
- dboreham 4y ago
  Electricity generation in the US isn't "under strong government influence"?
  - fweimer 4y ago
    I wasn't talking about regulation. EDF's relationship with the French government goes well beyond that.
- franckl 4y ago
  Careful, the renationalization is due to a lot of factors, the main one is that the EU forced EDF to sell its nuclear eneegy at a loss to private energy providerd in order to "free the market". Look for ARENH if you would like to learn more (quick Google https://www.nusconsulting.com/energy-blog/arenh-reform-could-result-in-edf-break-up https://www.nusconsulting.com/energy-blog/arenh-reform-could...)
  - fweimer 4y ago
    I didn't mean to imply that nationalization happened because nuclear power isn't commercially viable. The French situation was special even before full nationalization. I really doubt ARENH is the problem because as far as I understand it, it only applies to EDF's existing nuclear power plants. At 42 EUR/MWh wholesale, those plants should still make a tidy profit. Apparently, too few of them were actually running last year, and the French government imposed further price restrictions that also affected resale of energy that EDF purchased elsewhere at market prices (not coming from EDF's own nuclear fleet or its other power plants).
layer8 4y ago
An important motivation for France to invest in nuclear technology is that they want to remain a nuclear weapons state.

Ok, but France exists.

megaman821 4y ago

I doubt Americans would be happy paying what France pays for electricity (both directly and government aid).

oceanplexian 4y ago
I mean, if the choice is expensive electricity and rolling blackouts because the entire country relied on unreliable sources of energy, I'd take the former. The best energy source is one that's robust and dependable, not one that's theoretically cheaper in some ideal circumstances.
psd1 4y ago
Right, but non-monetary negative outcomes are swept under the rug. It costs nothing for fossil plant operators to pump carbon and sulphur into the atmosphere; that's why it takes regulation to make them install scrubbers. Scrubbers help, but don't prevent the outcome. The outcome can be measured in human deaths and loss of arable land. That cost is hidden. The "free market" is a grim joke while these costs can be ignored.

jjoonathan 4y ago

Also 20% of the US's electric grid for the last 30 years.

fweimer 4y ago

EDF has recently been re-nationalized, and has always been under strong government influence. It's not a good example of a civilian/free market nuclear power plant operator.

dboreham 4y ago
Electricity generation in the US isn't "under strong government influence"?
- fweimer 4y ago
  I wasn't talking about regulation. EDF's relationship with the French government goes well beyond that.
franckl 4y ago
Careful, the renationalization is due to a lot of factors, the main one is that the EU forced EDF to sell its nuclear eneegy at a loss to private energy providerd in order to "free the market". Look for ARENH if you would like to learn more (quick Google https://www.nusconsulting.com/energy-blog/arenh-reform-could-result-in-edf-break-up https://www.nusconsulting.com/energy-blog/arenh-reform-could...)
- fweimer 4y ago
  I didn't mean to imply that nationalization happened because nuclear power isn't commercially viable. The French situation was special even before full nationalization. I really doubt ARENH is the problem because as far as I understand it, it only applies to EDF's existing nuclear power plants. At 42 EUR/MWh wholesale, those plants should still make a tidy profit. Apparently, too few of them were actually running last year, and the French government imposed further price restrictions that also affected resale of energy that EDF purchased elsewhere at market prices (not coming from EDF's own nuclear fleet or its other power plants).

layer8 4y ago

An important motivation for France to invest in nuclear technology is that they want to remain a nuclear weapons state.