9 ms·

This line of thinking is why Chrome owns most of the internet. No one else can hope to compete because they just get screeched down.

autoexec 4y ago
Firefox is pretty nice once you beat it into submission. I'd put my money there before Brave.
- kdtsh 4y ago
  Honestly I find the defaults plus uBlock Origin and Multi-Account Containers to be fine, no bearing required.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    I must have a hundred things that I change on every install. At a bare minimum I'd be disabling pocket, prefetch, and search from the address bar for privacy reasons and then disabling service workers, webgl, and wasm for security reasons.
- account42 4y ago
  OTOH, Firefox funding depends almost entirely on Google so they are unlikely to do anything that upsets Google too much.
smoldesu 4y ago
Chrome owns the internet because people like Brave don't develop their own browser engine.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
  Companies like google keep expanding the effort needed to write a browser engine to ensure everyone uses their spyware.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Then companies like Apple should stop shrinking their API targets and contribute to the general wellness of computing, for a change.
    - rytis 4y ago
      Can you please give a concrete example of what Apple should do, in your opinion, to expand their API targets? And how is that related to web standards complexity?
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        People complain about excess functionality being added to web browsers (HTML5, WebXR, WebRTC, etc) and many of these complaints are valid. Web browsers don't need these features, they should be relegated to native apps. Except they can't be. Native apps don't offer the same freedoms that the web does. And so, we keep stacking technologies on top of web browsers to alleviate the problem. It's a bad situation, and both Google and Apple are gruesomely complicit in making this situation worse. > Can you please give a concrete example of what Apple should do, in your opinion, to expand their API targets? Stop browser lockdown. Allow sideloading. You know, the basics of computing that we had figured out since the mid-90s or when we sued Microsoft.
- mozey 4y ago
  Few people attempt this... Here is one: Ladybird https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/ https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform...
- IncRnd 4y ago
  It's the other way around. Brave uses the Chrome browser engine, because Chrome already developed their own browser engine.
- marshray 4y ago
  Chrome owns the internet because web standards have become so complex that not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine.
  - hollerith 4y ago
    >not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine We don't know that. Maybe Microsoft could maintain their own browser engine if Google hadn't provided one on permissive open-source licensing terms that met their needs.
    - bfung 4y ago
      >not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine MS can afford it financially. The desire to put in the effort to is not there.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        ...that's what they're saying. Microsoft has no reason to build their own browser when they can fork Chrome and preinstall it on their computers.
    - numpad0 4y ago
      Microsoft tried with Edge V1, and gave up when Google online services started sabotaging it.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        They gave up way too easily though. I don't think they ever had an interest in actually making a good browser engine. They've never managed one in their entire history. Microsoft love mediocrity, the "just good enough" mindset. Nobody takes their products on because they really excel at what they do. Just because they have a huge installed base, they're not so bad there's really a problem to use them and they integrate with everything else (e.g. Windows) nicely. For example Slack is so much better than that turd called Teams but nobody wants to pay the extra because Teams is free with O365 and user frustration doesn't cost anything on the bottom line. This is why Apple really came out of the blue with Steve Jobs' razor focus on quality above all. Microsoft's goal is never to be 'best in class'. Because they don't need to be. People will buy it anyway.
- NotPractical 4y ago
  Exactly. Brave just takes Chromium (from Google) and adds weird crypto stuff to it. None of the Chromium forks are "different browsers" in my eyes. They all depend on upstream for everything important. They couldn't develop the browser on their own. Just use Firefox. It works just as well as Chrome (*), but it's based on a completely different engine which was built from the ground up. (*) On desktop at least (on Android I still use a Chromium fork for now)
  - Ylpertnodi 4y ago
    >Just use Firefox. No. Well, I'm not so rude, so "No, thank you". >It works just as well as Chrome () Not on anything* I use, it doesn't, so "No....thank you". Tbf, I do keep trying ff, but...clunky, jeepers! 'Fraid I'll hang on until my Brave jumps it's particular shark and then maybe I'll hop over to something else, but for now, and as long as I can still use UblockO, Brave it is. Even Opera is looking interesting again....
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > Even Opera is looking interesting again.... What browsers have you been daily-driving to come to that conclusion?
  - silisili 4y ago
    > Brave just takes Chromium (from Google) and adds weird crypto stuff to it That's a really unfair(and untrue) statement. Brave also removes some code they find privacy violating, built in a best in class adblocker, built a full cross-device sync system that works perfectly, some UI tweaks and enhancements, built Tor connectivity in, etc. Probably a lot more that I'm leaving out. I am def not a fan of crypto or BATs or whatever they were pushing, but you can use it fine ignoring all of that.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      To be fair, you can also disable Microsoft's built-in VPN. The problem is trusting people who don't have your best interests at heart, and using Brave products just kicks that can further down the road.
- Entinel 4y ago
  99% of a web browsers end users do not care if their browser uses Servo, Webkit, etc.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    I'd guess pretty close to that number don't even know what those are in the first place.
  - andirk 4y ago
    Yes but being able to use all of Chrome's extensions in Brave is a huge win to me. And most Chrome documentation, Q and A, tutorials are mostly relevant to Brave as well. I see Google and other behemoths contributing to an open source project as a good thing. The product may not be where it is today without their help, including paying people to work on a free product. Still, yeah don't trust them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

autoexec 4y ago

Firefox is pretty nice once you beat it into submission. I'd put my money there before Brave.

kdtsh 4y ago
Honestly I find the defaults plus uBlock Origin and Multi-Account Containers to be fine, no bearing required.
- autoexec 4y ago
  I must have a hundred things that I change on every install. At a bare minimum I'd be disabling pocket, prefetch, and search from the address bar for privacy reasons and then disabling service workers, webgl, and wasm for security reasons.
account42 4y ago
OTOH, Firefox funding depends almost entirely on Google so they are unlikely to do anything that upsets Google too much.

smoldesu 4y ago

Chrome owns the internet because people like Brave don't develop their own browser engine.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
Companies like google keep expanding the effort needed to write a browser engine to ensure everyone uses their spyware.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Then companies like Apple should stop shrinking their API targets and contribute to the general wellness of computing, for a change.
  - rytis 4y ago
    Can you please give a concrete example of what Apple should do, in your opinion, to expand their API targets? And how is that related to web standards complexity?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      People complain about excess functionality being added to web browsers (HTML5, WebXR, WebRTC, etc) and many of these complaints are valid. Web browsers don't need these features, they should be relegated to native apps. Except they can't be. Native apps don't offer the same freedoms that the web does. And so, we keep stacking technologies on top of web browsers to alleviate the problem. It's a bad situation, and both Google and Apple are gruesomely complicit in making this situation worse. > Can you please give a concrete example of what Apple should do, in your opinion, to expand their API targets? Stop browser lockdown. Allow sideloading. You know, the basics of computing that we had figured out since the mid-90s or when we sued Microsoft.
mozey 4y ago
Few people attempt this... Here is one: Ladybird https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/ https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform...
IncRnd 4y ago
It's the other way around. Brave uses the Chrome browser engine, because Chrome already developed their own browser engine.
marshray 4y ago
Chrome owns the internet because web standards have become so complex that not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine.
- hollerith 4y ago
  >not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine We don't know that. Maybe Microsoft could maintain their own browser engine if Google hadn't provided one on permissive open-source licensing terms that met their needs.
  - bfung 4y ago
    >not even Microsoft can afford to maintain their own browser engine MS can afford it financially. The desire to put in the effort to is not there.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      ...that's what they're saying. Microsoft has no reason to build their own browser when they can fork Chrome and preinstall it on their computers.
  - numpad0 4y ago
    Microsoft tried with Edge V1, and gave up when Google online services started sabotaging it.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      They gave up way too easily though. I don't think they ever had an interest in actually making a good browser engine. They've never managed one in their entire history. Microsoft love mediocrity, the "just good enough" mindset. Nobody takes their products on because they really excel at what they do. Just because they have a huge installed base, they're not so bad there's really a problem to use them and they integrate with everything else (e.g. Windows) nicely. For example Slack is so much better than that turd called Teams but nobody wants to pay the extra because Teams is free with O365 and user frustration doesn't cost anything on the bottom line. This is why Apple really came out of the blue with Steve Jobs' razor focus on quality above all. Microsoft's goal is never to be 'best in class'. Because they don't need to be. People will buy it anyway.
NotPractical 4y ago
Exactly. Brave just takes Chromium (from Google) and adds weird crypto stuff to it. None of the Chromium forks are "different browsers" in my eyes. They all depend on upstream for everything important. They couldn't develop the browser on their own. Just use Firefox. It works just as well as Chrome (*), but it's based on a completely different engine which was built from the ground up. (*) On desktop at least (on Android I still use a Chromium fork for now)
- Ylpertnodi 4y ago
  >Just use Firefox. No. Well, I'm not so rude, so "No, thank you". >It works just as well as Chrome () Not on anything* I use, it doesn't, so "No....thank you". Tbf, I do keep trying ff, but...clunky, jeepers! 'Fraid I'll hang on until my Brave jumps it's particular shark and then maybe I'll hop over to something else, but for now, and as long as I can still use UblockO, Brave it is. Even Opera is looking interesting again....
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > Even Opera is looking interesting again.... What browsers have you been daily-driving to come to that conclusion?
- silisili 4y ago
  > Brave just takes Chromium (from Google) and adds weird crypto stuff to it That's a really unfair(and untrue) statement. Brave also removes some code they find privacy violating, built in a best in class adblocker, built a full cross-device sync system that works perfectly, some UI tweaks and enhancements, built Tor connectivity in, etc. Probably a lot more that I'm leaving out. I am def not a fan of crypto or BATs or whatever they were pushing, but you can use it fine ignoring all of that.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    To be fair, you can also disable Microsoft's built-in VPN. The problem is trusting people who don't have your best interests at heart, and using Brave products just kicks that can further down the road.
Entinel 4y ago
99% of a web browsers end users do not care if their browser uses Servo, Webkit, etc.
- autoexec 4y ago
  I'd guess pretty close to that number don't even know what those are in the first place.
- andirk 4y ago
  Yes but being able to use all of Chrome's extensions in Brave is a huge win to me. And most Chrome documentation, Q and A, tutorials are mostly relevant to Brave as well. I see Google and other behemoths contributing to an open source project as a good thing. The product may not be where it is today without their help, including paying people to work on a free product. Still, yeah don't trust them.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]