5 ms·

From what I understand Jobs was probably fine with using the Apple logo on the physical key, the problem was rather displaying the logo everywhere in the menus,

by mrzool 4y ago

From what I understand Jobs was probably fine with using the Apple logo on the physical key, the problem was rather displaying the logo everywhere in the menus, where the shortcuts are displayed. That would have been way too much indeed.

herrvogel- 4y ago
There is this great talk[0] by Susan Kare. At 14:30 she talks about this and explains how the ⌘ came to be. [0] https://vimeo.com/151277875 https://vimeo.com/151277875
- gonehome 4y ago
  She also has a personal website where she still makes and sells great stuff! https://kareprints.com/ https://kareprints.com/
  - warent 4y ago
    Amazing, thank you! just bought her hand painted :D cant wait to have in the office https://kareprints.com/products/hand-painted-japanese-woodcut https://kareprints.com/products/hand-painted-japanese-woodcu...
- codetrotter 4y ago
  Susan Kare is also the designer of Dogcow btw :D https://512pixels.net/dogcow/ https://512pixels.net/dogcow/
  - OnlyMortal 4y ago
    “Moof”
mitchdoogle 4y ago
Most likely it would have been abbreviated as Apl, similar to how the windows key is Win when shown in menus of keyboard shortcuts
- ksherlock 4y ago
  Microsoft has no taste. The Apple IIgs used an Apple icon. https://imgur.com/0FzDRjl https://imgur.com/0FzDRjl
  - ianai 4y ago
    MS not having taste is both a bug and a feature.
- JadeNB 4y ago
  macOS (even back when it was OS X, and I assume before that) systematically refers to special keys with symbols, not written names. In addition to the CMD symbol, SHIFT is ⇧, CTRL is ^, and ALT/OPT is ⌥.
  - underwater 4y ago
    And they sell keyboards that only use the written names, and not the symbols. Plus make common keyboard shortcuts require multiple modifier keys.
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      > And they sell keyboards that only use the written names, and not the symbols. Do they? I thought all Apple-branded keyboards used the symbols (except, as bin_bash points out (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33036804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33036804), for shift). > Plus make common keyboard shortcuts require multiple modifier keys. You can also change keyboard shortcuts system-wide. It's not an argument against good defaults, but it does allow you to relieve the pain.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    Correct. That’s what it did in System 6 and 7, if I remember correctly. Those were the first/oldest Macs I’ve used.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    I've always wondered why they don't put the shift symbol on the keyboards when all the other symbols exist
aidenn0 4y ago
Indeed, I may be misremembering, but I think macintoshes had both the looped circle and the apple logo. Some of the Apple II series had two apple keys, one open and one filled.
- neilv 4y ago
  https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/6d/53/466d53a208f3e92ec343ef9bdf8302cd.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/6d/53/466d53a208f3e92ec343ef9bd...
- drewzero1 4y ago
  When I was in school (beige Macintosh era) our teachers told us the keyboard shortcuts as "open apple-S" or "open apple-Q". At the time the keyboards did indeed have both the looped circle and the Apple logo[0], but both were open apples. I had an Apple IIe at home but hadn't figured out keyboard shortcuts yet. 0: https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Apple_Extended_II_Salmon_USA_90_--_top.jpg https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Apple_Extended_II_Salmon_U...
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    Oh, I recognize those ALPS-style keyswitch tops anywhere. It was definitely the IIe I was thinking of as the ones with the open and closed apple.
- dhosek 4y ago
  That came in beginning with the //e, they were mapped to be equivalent to paddle button 1 and 2. Ctrl-open apple-reset triggered a reboot. It’s 36 years since I’ve used an Apple //e but this is still wired deep in my brain. This approach to the new keys meant that applications could use the two Apple keys as modifiers without a whole lot of effort since you could read the key press and state of the paddle button easily enough. At some point, they also required ctrl to be pressed along side reset to prevent it from being accidentally triggered (it was right next to the return key). Reset on its own terminated the currently running program (as opposed to ctrl-c which stopped a BASIC program but you could resume the program—this was an early means of debugging since you could do things like PRINT A$ to see the value of A$ at the time that you stopped the program or even alter program variables before resuming). There was one occasion when someone at my high school was experiencing great frustration because every time he did ctrl-reset, the computer rebooted. It turned out that a book was sitting on top of the paddles depressing the button.

by mrzool 4y ago

herrvogel- 4y ago

There is this great talk[0] by Susan Kare. At 14:30 she talks about this and explains how the ⌘ came to be. [0] https://vimeo.com/151277875 https://vimeo.com/151277875

gonehome 4y ago
She also has a personal website where she still makes and sells great stuff! https://kareprints.com/ https://kareprints.com/
- warent 4y ago
  Amazing, thank you! just bought her hand painted :D cant wait to have in the office https://kareprints.com/products/hand-painted-japanese-woodcut https://kareprints.com/products/hand-painted-japanese-woodcu...
codetrotter 4y ago
Susan Kare is also the designer of Dogcow btw :D https://512pixels.net/dogcow/ https://512pixels.net/dogcow/
- OnlyMortal 4y ago
  “Moof”

mitchdoogle 4y ago

Most likely it would have been abbreviated as Apl, similar to how the windows key is Win when shown in menus of keyboard shortcuts

ksherlock 4y ago
Microsoft has no taste. The Apple IIgs used an Apple icon. https://imgur.com/0FzDRjl https://imgur.com/0FzDRjl
- ianai 4y ago
  MS not having taste is both a bug and a feature.
JadeNB 4y ago
macOS (even back when it was OS X, and I assume before that) systematically refers to special keys with symbols, not written names. In addition to the CMD symbol, SHIFT is ⇧, CTRL is ^, and ALT/OPT is ⌥.
- underwater 4y ago
  And they sell keyboards that only use the written names, and not the symbols. Plus make common keyboard shortcuts require multiple modifier keys.
  - JadeNB 4y ago
    > And they sell keyboards that only use the written names, and not the symbols. Do they? I thought all Apple-branded keyboards used the symbols (except, as bin_bash points out (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33036804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33036804), for shift). > Plus make common keyboard shortcuts require multiple modifier keys. You can also change keyboard shortcuts system-wide. It's not an argument against good defaults, but it does allow you to relieve the pain.
- MBCook 4y ago
  Correct. That’s what it did in System 6 and 7, if I remember correctly. Those were the first/oldest Macs I’ve used.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  I've always wondered why they don't put the shift symbol on the keyboards when all the other symbols exist

aidenn0 4y ago

Indeed, I may be misremembering, but I think macintoshes had both the looped circle and the apple logo. Some of the Apple II series had two apple keys, one open and one filled.

neilv 4y ago
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/6d/53/466d53a208f3e92ec343ef9bdf8302cd.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/6d/53/466d53a208f3e92ec343ef9bd...
drewzero1 4y ago
When I was in school (beige Macintosh era) our teachers told us the keyboard shortcuts as "open apple-S" or "open apple-Q". At the time the keyboards did indeed have both the looped circle and the Apple logo[0], but both were open apples. I had an Apple IIe at home but hadn't figured out keyboard shortcuts yet. 0: https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Apple_Extended_II_Salmon_USA_90_--_top.jpg https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Apple_Extended_II_Salmon_U...
- aidenn0 4y ago
  Oh, I recognize those ALPS-style keyswitch tops anywhere. It was definitely the IIe I was thinking of as the ones with the open and closed apple.
dhosek 4y ago
That came in beginning with the //e, they were mapped to be equivalent to paddle button 1 and 2. Ctrl-open apple-reset triggered a reboot. It’s 36 years since I’ve used an Apple //e but this is still wired deep in my brain. This approach to the new keys meant that applications could use the two Apple keys as modifiers without a whole lot of effort since you could read the key press and state of the paddle button easily enough. At some point, they also required ctrl to be pressed along side reset to prevent it from being accidentally triggered (it was right next to the return key). Reset on its own terminated the currently running program (as opposed to ctrl-c which stopped a BASIC program but you could resume the program—this was an early means of debugging since you could do things like PRINT A$ to see the value of A$ at the time that you stopped the program or even alter program variables before resuming). There was one occasion when someone at my high school was experiencing great frustration because every time he did ctrl-reset, the computer rebooted. It turned out that a book was sitting on top of the paddles depressing the button.