4 ms·

I didn't like it. It was too much theory based without enough recognition of practice. I and a very small company used it ~25 years ago. It wasn't good enough &

I didn't like it. It was too much theory based without enough recognition of practice. I and a very small company used it ~25 years ago. It wasn't good enough & we eventually dumped it. I can't give you reasons why as it was too long ago but I don't have a good memory of it. I do remember of the Eiffel book that Meyer was a bit too keen on emotive arguments over factual.

bitL 4y ago
The zeal/tunnel vision of early OOP evangelists resembles the zeal of today's FP evangelists...
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  (Edited the following) I'm not talking about OOP. Meyer was hard on pre and postconditions (which were massively oversold), but these were functionally no more than assertions. He had holes in his object system. He had holes in other parts of the type system. He was not an object zealot IIRC.
  - bitL 4y ago
    I took some classes from him while he was at ETH.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      Ok, post modified, but still I don't feel you've represented him entirely fairly.
      - bitL 4y ago
        It could have been interpreted badly - I was just pointing out he was from the generation that pushed OOP everywhere similarly to FP folks these days, and downplaying the problems inherent in Eiffel/OOP, similarly to FP folks that see no major issues in their own space. A single sentence can't explain the massive contribution he had on programming and Agile anyway.
        pepoluan 4y ago
        Ahh... in a sense, that's like Hype-Driven Development, where everything new becomes the solution for everything... https://blog.daftcode.pl/hype-driven-development-3469fc2e9b22 https://blog.daftcode.pl/hype-driven-development-3469fc2e9b2...
        zasdffaa 4y ago
        I misinterpreted it because there's a rash of people who post throwaway dismissive stuff (always without any justification) and yours looked exactly like that. So, my apologies. I'd suggest a mention of your personal experience would have been valuable here; actually getting lessons off the guy is a big deal.
smitty1e 4y ago
"The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than in theory."--Herb Sutter
- mejutoco 4y ago
  "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice - in practice there is" (Yogi Berra)
  - smitty1e 4y ago
    Sutter's rendition (from C++ User's Journal some decades ago) has a more poetic feel, in my wildly subjective opinion.
  - cafard 4y ago
    "I really didn't say all the things I said." (Yogi Berra: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/12/30/yogi-didnt-say/#:~:text=attributed%20to%20Yogi.-,%E2%80%9CI%20really%20didn't%20say%20everything%20I%20said%2C%E2%80%9D,Berra%20said%2C%20creating%20another%20original.&text=Yogi%20Berra%2C%20new%20coach%20of,t%20say%20everything%20I%20said.%E2%80%9D) https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/12/30/yogi-didnt-say/#:~:...

bitL 4y ago

The zeal/tunnel vision of early OOP evangelists resembles the zeal of today's FP evangelists...

zasdffaa 4y ago
(Edited the following) I'm not talking about OOP. Meyer was hard on pre and postconditions (which were massively oversold), but these were functionally no more than assertions. He had holes in his object system. He had holes in other parts of the type system. He was not an object zealot IIRC.
- bitL 4y ago
  I took some classes from him while he was at ETH.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Ok, post modified, but still I don't feel you've represented him entirely fairly.
    - bitL 4y ago
      It could have been interpreted badly - I was just pointing out he was from the generation that pushed OOP everywhere similarly to FP folks these days, and downplaying the problems inherent in Eiffel/OOP, similarly to FP folks that see no major issues in their own space. A single sentence can't explain the massive contribution he had on programming and Agile anyway.
      - pepoluan 4y ago
        Ahh... in a sense, that's like Hype-Driven Development, where everything new becomes the solution for everything... https://blog.daftcode.pl/hype-driven-development-3469fc2e9b22 https://blog.daftcode.pl/hype-driven-development-3469fc2e9b2...
      - zasdffaa 4y ago
        I misinterpreted it because there's a rash of people who post throwaway dismissive stuff (always without any justification) and yours looked exactly like that. So, my apologies. I'd suggest a mention of your personal experience would have been valuable here; actually getting lessons off the guy is a big deal.

smitty1e 4y ago

"The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than in theory."--Herb Sutter

mejutoco 4y ago
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice - in practice there is" (Yogi Berra)
- smitty1e 4y ago
  Sutter's rendition (from C++ User's Journal some decades ago) has a more poetic feel, in my wildly subjective opinion.
- cafard 4y ago
  "I really didn't say all the things I said." (Yogi Berra: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/12/30/yogi-didnt-say/#:~:text=attributed%20to%20Yogi.-,%E2%80%9CI%20really%20didn't%20say%20everything%20I%20said%2C%E2%80%9D,Berra%20said%2C%20creating%20another%20original.&text=Yogi%20Berra%2C%20new%20coach%20of,t%20say%20everything%20I%20said.%E2%80%9D) https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/12/30/yogi-didnt-say/#:~:...