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> I took the metro as far as I could go, which is about half-way, > and a bus from there. The center of Bucha all told is about 30km > from the center of Ky

> I took the metro as far as I could go, which is about half-way, > and a bus from there. The center of Bucha all told is about 30km > from the center of Kyiv. An aspect of the Ukraine war I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around is how close (geographically) everything is. I thought of Kyiv along the lines of London during the Blitz -- in danger, but not necessarily on the front lines -- and of Bucha as perhaps a town along the road from Russian territory. But in truth it's more like a suburb. The distance from Bucha's rail station to the Office of the President of Ukraine is about the same as San Francisco to Millbrae. It puts into perspective how fraught the early days of the invasion were, and the true weight of Zelensky holding his ground in Kyiv.

qaq 4y ago
Not everything it's just that Bucha is actual Kyiv suburb
- nextos 4y ago
  Yes, it's like Arlington and DC almost.
  - cafard 4y ago
    A good deal of the American Civil War was fought within what are now suburbs or exurbs of Washington, DC. Meet a Virginia Railroad Express (VRE) train at L'Enfant Plaza, and you will likely find some commuters from Fredericksburg, to say nothing of Manassas.
  - asveikau 4y ago
    DC native here. Glancing at Google maps, I'd say it looks further out than Arlington. Maybe I'd put it at about Rockville.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- arcticfox 4y ago
  Exactly, and of course Kyiv/Bucha was close to the early fighting - Russia made a thunder run directly to it from the nearby border. Russia started their invasion a 2 hr drive from Kyiv, with no resistance they could have occupied it in hours. Instead they managed to create a military traffic jam the entire length of the highway trying to force the issue. Nowadays, Kyiv is a 8 or 9 hr drive from the major fights, like going from New York City past Philadelphia past Baltimore past DC past Richmond and all the way to Raleigh, NC.
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    There was a great WSJ piece about this recently [1]. It's a mistake to frame it as a passive mistake by Russia — there was some truly incredible spontaneous thinking and heroism on Ukraine's part that turned it into a traffic jam / deathtrap. In a slightly different world, if a couple dozen people had been less committed to stopping the blitz, it could have ended very differently. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-invasion-ukraine-battle-of-kyiv-ragtag-army-11663683336 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-invasion-ukraine-battle...
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Or if Putin had taken the gloves off earlier (as many nationalists to the right of him had been demanding) it would have ended very differently as well.
    - mcv 4y ago
      I heard that a special unit was traveling on quad bikes through the swamps next to the column to harass the column in various ways and ensure supplies never reached the front of the column. My impression as a layman is that Ukraine has been fighting this war with a lot of creativity and innovation, surgical precision and excellent coordination. Unlike Russia, which tried to be fast and clever but failed at it, and has since relied on just massive firepower to destroy everything in their path.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
walrus01 4y ago
Hostomel/Antonov airport is really quite close to the center of Kiev. The russians made a real effort to capture it in the beginning days of the war as an airlift beachhead, (resulting in a huge fatality rate for their paratroopers), and their relief convoy getting nearly obliterated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hostomel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hostomel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_offensive_(2022) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_offensive_(2022) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  - walrus01 4y ago
    And yet, the factual outcome of the battle (many months ago!) was that all of the russian army units to the north/northwest of Kiev were either destroyed/killed, captured or withdrew themselves back into Belarus. Unless you want to claim that the Ukrainians did not actually win in that entire theatre of the war? That massive convoy of Russian vehicles to the north of Kiev in the early days of the war is not presently parked in downtown Kiev, occupying the seats of power, so I think the outcome has been obvious. You don't want to believe the ukrainians? Okay, the satellite imagery of that massive build up of Russians who tried a thrust directly towards Kiev at the earliest days of the war was taken by Maxar, a US company, and two or three other competing commercial satellite imagery companies. Your entire comment reads like somebody who thinks RT/Sputnik is real journalism.
  - rendall 4y ago
    > their own Ombudsman for Human Rights admitted that she made up claims about Russian soldiers raping children Not having heard about this, I looked it up. She was fired by Ukraine lawmakers, specifically (among other things) for publishing reports without factual basis. Ukrainian journalists published an open letter criticizing her reports as lacking sufficient evidence. https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680 https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissio... Of course pro-Kremlin sources would skip those details, to seize on her post-firing admission to claim that all accusations are therefore false. > The Wikipedia articles EXCLUSIVELY ... But, point taken about Wikipedia. People really do need to stop using it as a source to support their arguments.
bnralt 4y ago
The Russians were also attacking from other directions, resulting in Kyiv being partly surrounded for quite some time. And as close the Russians got, the fog of war made it seem like they were even closer. One the night of February 25th - one day into the war - the New York Times had the headline: "RUSSIAN TROOPS ENTER KYIV"[1]. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220225122446/https://www.nytimes.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220225122446/https://www.nytim...
- mcv 4y ago
  I clearly remember several reports of fighting in the outskirts of Kyiv itself. It's scary how close they got.

qaq 4y ago

Not everything it's just that Bucha is actual Kyiv suburb

nextos 4y ago
Yes, it's like Arlington and DC almost.
- cafard 4y ago
  A good deal of the American Civil War was fought within what are now suburbs or exurbs of Washington, DC. Meet a Virginia Railroad Express (VRE) train at L'Enfant Plaza, and you will likely find some commuters from Fredericksburg, to say nothing of Manassas.
- asveikau 4y ago
  DC native here. Glancing at Google maps, I'd say it looks further out than Arlington. Maybe I'd put it at about Rockville.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
arcticfox 4y ago
Exactly, and of course Kyiv/Bucha was close to the early fighting - Russia made a thunder run directly to it from the nearby border. Russia started their invasion a 2 hr drive from Kyiv, with no resistance they could have occupied it in hours. Instead they managed to create a military traffic jam the entire length of the highway trying to force the issue. Nowadays, Kyiv is a 8 or 9 hr drive from the major fights, like going from New York City past Philadelphia past Baltimore past DC past Richmond and all the way to Raleigh, NC.
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  There was a great WSJ piece about this recently [1]. It's a mistake to frame it as a passive mistake by Russia — there was some truly incredible spontaneous thinking and heroism on Ukraine's part that turned it into a traffic jam / deathtrap. In a slightly different world, if a couple dozen people had been less committed to stopping the blitz, it could have ended very differently. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-invasion-ukraine-battle-of-kyiv-ragtag-army-11663683336 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-invasion-ukraine-battle...
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Or if Putin had taken the gloves off earlier (as many nationalists to the right of him had been demanding) it would have ended very differently as well.
  - mcv 4y ago
    I heard that a special unit was traveling on quad bikes through the swamps next to the column to harass the column in various ways and ensure supplies never reached the front of the column. My impression as a layman is that Ukraine has been fighting this war with a lot of creativity and innovation, surgical precision and excellent coordination. Unlike Russia, which tried to be fast and clever but failed at it, and has since relied on just massive firepower to destroy everything in their path.
    - miguelazo 4y ago

walrus01 4y ago

Hostomel/Antonov airport is really quite close to the center of Kiev. The russians made a real effort to capture it in the beginning days of the war as an airlift beachhead, (resulting in a huge fatality rate for their paratroopers), and their relief convoy getting nearly obliterated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hostomel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hostomel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_offensive_(2022) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_offensive_(2022) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0

rjzzleep 4y ago
- walrus01 4y ago
  And yet, the factual outcome of the battle (many months ago!) was that all of the russian army units to the north/northwest of Kiev were either destroyed/killed, captured or withdrew themselves back into Belarus. Unless you want to claim that the Ukrainians did not actually win in that entire theatre of the war? That massive convoy of Russian vehicles to the north of Kiev in the early days of the war is not presently parked in downtown Kiev, occupying the seats of power, so I think the outcome has been obvious. You don't want to believe the ukrainians? Okay, the satellite imagery of that massive build up of Russians who tried a thrust directly towards Kiev at the earliest days of the war was taken by Maxar, a US company, and two or three other competing commercial satellite imagery companies. Your entire comment reads like somebody who thinks RT/Sputnik is real journalism.
- rendall 4y ago
  > their own Ombudsman for Human Rights admitted that she made up claims about Russian soldiers raping children Not having heard about this, I looked it up. She was fired by Ukraine lawmakers, specifically (among other things) for publishing reports without factual basis. Ukrainian journalists published an open letter criticizing her reports as lacking sufficient evidence. https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680 https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissio... Of course pro-Kremlin sources would skip those details, to seize on her post-firing admission to claim that all accusations are therefore false. > The Wikipedia articles EXCLUSIVELY ... But, point taken about Wikipedia. People really do need to stop using it as a source to support their arguments.

bnralt 4y ago

The Russians were also attacking from other directions, resulting in Kyiv being partly surrounded for quite some time. And as close the Russians got, the fog of war made it seem like they were even closer. One the night of February 25th - one day into the war - the New York Times had the headline: "RUSSIAN TROOPS ENTER KYIV"[1]. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220225122446/https://www.nytimes.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220225122446/https://www.nytim...

mcv 4y ago
I clearly remember several reports of fighting in the outskirts of Kyiv itself. It's scary how close they got.