5 ms·

I have thoroughly enjoyed the acrobatics required for Europeans that try to blame all of this on the US because they need a scapegoat so as to avoid personal re

I have thoroughly enjoyed the acrobatics required for Europeans that try to blame all of this on the US because they need a scapegoat so as to avoid personal responsibility.

retinaros 4y ago
u mean like when ukrained was trained by us operative, its leadership selected by us operative and using us weapons . the only country that used nuclear are the usa. i wouldnt trust them not to push for a nuclear attack again
- pkaye 4y ago
  It was not just US but includes UK and Canada and the NATO organization. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07135/SN07135.pdf https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07...
  - retinaros 4y ago
    nato is usa
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Two other permanent members of the UN Security Council with their own independent nuclear arsenals will be very surprised to learn that.
Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
This has nothing to do with scapegoating, the US military literally attacked european infrastructure this week
- ben_w 4y ago
  Really? Where?
  - CapricornNoble 4y ago
    It was almost certainly a state actor behind the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines recently. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-nord-stream-leak-detected-swedish-coastguard-says https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-nord-stream-l... A former Polish Minister of Defense posted "Thankyou USA" to Twitter after the attack. Various US officials have made public statements since the start of 2022 stating the US wouldn't allow Nord Stream to go forward. The whole reason the pipelines were built was for Russia to cut out the Ukrainian/Polish middlemen (transit fees) involved in selling gas to Germany, so the Russians don't have any incentive to blow up their own pipeline.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      I agree that a state actor was involved. I disagree that Russia has no incentive. While the USA obviously has the means and more than zero motivation, I don’t see this type of infrastructure damage so close to allies as likely. Especially given the EU was already in the process of permanently ending the purchase of all Russian gas, not just these pipelines. Russia, however, is looking at one never-opened pipeline and one already-offline pipeline, which is going to a bloc that has announced that it won’t pay as much as Russia is asking for its gas, won’t pay in the currency Russia is demanding, and wants to rapidly move away from Russian gas entirely, and which is currently sanctioning against Russia. Russia appears to believe that cutting off gas to Europe will end European support for Ukraine, and therefore has an obvious incentive to cut it off. Russia has incentives to make this look like it isn’t Russia’s fault, for the same reason anyone who might have done this would have had an incentive to hide their own identity.
      - CapricornNoble 4y ago
        >>>Russia appears to believe that cutting off gas to Europe will end European support for Ukraine, and therefore has an obvious incentive to cut it off. Russia has incentives to make this look like it isn’t Russia’s fault Russia had already done the former by basically "turning off the tap", and already argued it wasn't their fault because they were willing to supply gas to Europe as long as Europe paid in Russian rubles. They were also using the gas supply for political leverage: "release our frozen assets and we'll turn the gas back on" "pay in rubles and we'll turn the gas back on" "stop sending weapons to Ukraine and we'll turn the gas back on" Now they physically CAN'T do any of those things, so this is a massive blow to what little bargaining power they hoped to retain through the winter. If there is any nation that is harmed by the physical destruction of these pipes, it's Russia.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  It was probably Russia, Germany would be to pissed if Biden did that
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    i agree. the us cares so much about what germany thinks
    - ben_w 4y ago
      I doubt the USA cares very much about just Germany (and I live in Berlin), but whoever did this pissed off basically all the EU, and I think the USA does care about not pissing off the EU collectivity. (For scale, I doubt any nation other than the USA itself cares about pissing off the state of Florida, while almost every nation cares about not pissing off the USA collectivity).
medo-bear 4y ago
i have thoroughly enjoyed americans enjoying this and telling everyone i told you so

I have thoroughly enjoyed the acrobatics required for Europeans that try to blame all of this on the US because they need a scapegoat so as to avoid personal responsibility.

retinaros 4y ago

u mean like when ukrained was trained by us operative, its leadership selected by us operative and using us weapons . the only country that used nuclear are the usa. i wouldnt trust them not to push for a nuclear attack again

pkaye 4y ago
It was not just US but includes UK and Canada and the NATO organization. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07135/SN07135.pdf https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07...
- retinaros 4y ago
  nato is usa
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Two other permanent members of the UN Security Council with their own independent nuclear arsenals will be very surprised to learn that.

Jon_Lowtek 4y ago

This has nothing to do with scapegoating, the US military literally attacked european infrastructure this week

ben_w 4y ago
Really? Where?
- CapricornNoble 4y ago
  It was almost certainly a state actor behind the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines recently. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-nord-stream-leak-detected-swedish-coastguard-says https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-nord-stream-l... A former Polish Minister of Defense posted "Thankyou USA" to Twitter after the attack. Various US officials have made public statements since the start of 2022 stating the US wouldn't allow Nord Stream to go forward. The whole reason the pipelines were built was for Russia to cut out the Ukrainian/Polish middlemen (transit fees) involved in selling gas to Germany, so the Russians don't have any incentive to blow up their own pipeline.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I agree that a state actor was involved. I disagree that Russia has no incentive. While the USA obviously has the means and more than zero motivation, I don’t see this type of infrastructure damage so close to allies as likely. Especially given the EU was already in the process of permanently ending the purchase of all Russian gas, not just these pipelines. Russia, however, is looking at one never-opened pipeline and one already-offline pipeline, which is going to a bloc that has announced that it won’t pay as much as Russia is asking for its gas, won’t pay in the currency Russia is demanding, and wants to rapidly move away from Russian gas entirely, and which is currently sanctioning against Russia. Russia appears to believe that cutting off gas to Europe will end European support for Ukraine, and therefore has an obvious incentive to cut it off. Russia has incentives to make this look like it isn’t Russia’s fault, for the same reason anyone who might have done this would have had an incentive to hide their own identity.
    - CapricornNoble 4y ago
      >>>Russia appears to believe that cutting off gas to Europe will end European support for Ukraine, and therefore has an obvious incentive to cut it off. Russia has incentives to make this look like it isn’t Russia’s fault Russia had already done the former by basically "turning off the tap", and already argued it wasn't their fault because they were willing to supply gas to Europe as long as Europe paid in Russian rubles. They were also using the gas supply for political leverage: "release our frozen assets and we'll turn the gas back on" "pay in rubles and we'll turn the gas back on" "stop sending weapons to Ukraine and we'll turn the gas back on" Now they physically CAN'T do any of those things, so this is a massive blow to what little bargaining power they hoped to retain through the winter. If there is any nation that is harmed by the physical destruction of these pipes, it's Russia.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
It was probably Russia, Germany would be to pissed if Biden did that
- medo-bear 4y ago
  i agree. the us cares so much about what germany thinks
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I doubt the USA cares very much about just Germany (and I live in Berlin), but whoever did this pissed off basically all the EU, and I think the USA does care about not pissing off the EU collectivity. (For scale, I doubt any nation other than the USA itself cares about pissing off the state of Florida, while almost every nation cares about not pissing off the USA collectivity).

medo-bear 4y ago

i have thoroughly enjoyed americans enjoying this and telling everyone i told you so