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yet another JIT related vuln? c'mon, will we ever stop using JIT in browsers? Just take a look at this article from Microsoft Browser Vulnerability Research w

yet another JIT related vuln? c'mon, will we ever stop using JIT in browsers? Just take a look at this article from Microsoft Browser Vulnerability Research where they do challenge this and perform benchmarks without JIT >https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Secure-Mode/ https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec... >Looking at CVE (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) data after 2019 shows that roughly 45% of CVEs issued for V8 were related to the JIT engine.

saagarjha 4y ago
We’ll stop using JITs when it becomes acceptable to make computers 2x slower, or more.
- Arnavion 4y ago
  Or when it becomes acceptable to make them 100x faster by not using JS, but that's even less likely to happen :)
  - kevingadd 4y ago
    No JIT also rules out most modern uses of Java and C#, along with things like LuaJIT.
    - Arnavion 4y ago
      >>>c'mon, will we ever stop using JIT in browsers?
      - xboxnolifes 4y ago
        Not using JS means you need to replace it with something, which means you gotta put it into the browser.
        netr0ute 4y ago
        Who says we need JS?
        xboxnolifes 4y ago
        Nobody? That's why the word replace is there?
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      LuaJIT has a very good interpreter too. You could still use it in a lot of places.
    - xdfgh1112 4y ago
      The JavaScript JIT is much more complex due to guessing whether a number is int or floating point or if a prototype is a class etc.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  For the stuff javascript code does directly? Especially now that we have WASM sitting around for heavy math? Hell yeah make it 2x slower. We've advanced the speed so much and have plenty to spare. ...but if that only solves half the vulnerabilities I don't think it's worth it. Still worth keeping in mind in case that ratio shifts significantly.
Analemma_ 4y ago
It's easy to turn off the JIT if you want - you can even do it on the iPhone now. It makes the web dogshit slow and is a fundamental nonstarter of an idea. A slightly more feasible way forward here is replacing JavaScript with dear god anything else but JavaScript but that's a long way off. WebAssembly seems to have stalled.
- sjtgraham 4y ago
  It’s not really noticeable on an iPhone 13 Pro. Just an FYI if you’re on latest hardware.
- cebert 4y ago
  Are you on a very old iPhone model? I haven’t found disabling jit to be noticeably slower on my iPhone 13 when running iOS 16 in “Lockdown Mode”. The Microsoft Edge team has benchmarks supporting the impact is minimal on Chromium based browsers too (https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Secure-Mode/ https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec...).
- staticassertion 4y ago
  > WebAssembly seems to have stalled. Can you elaborate?

saagarjha 4y ago

We’ll stop using JITs when it becomes acceptable to make computers 2x slower, or more.

Arnavion 4y ago
Or when it becomes acceptable to make them 100x faster by not using JS, but that's even less likely to happen :)
- kevingadd 4y ago
  No JIT also rules out most modern uses of Java and C#, along with things like LuaJIT.
  - Arnavion 4y ago
    >>>c'mon, will we ever stop using JIT in browsers?
    - xboxnolifes 4y ago
      Not using JS means you need to replace it with something, which means you gotta put it into the browser.
      - netr0ute 4y ago
        Who says we need JS?
        xboxnolifes 4y ago
        Nobody? That's why the word replace is there?
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    LuaJIT has a very good interpreter too. You could still use it in a lot of places.
  - xdfgh1112 4y ago
    The JavaScript JIT is much more complex due to guessing whether a number is int or floating point or if a prototype is a class etc.
Dylan16807 4y ago
For the stuff javascript code does directly? Especially now that we have WASM sitting around for heavy math? Hell yeah make it 2x slower. We've advanced the speed so much and have plenty to spare. ...but if that only solves half the vulnerabilities I don't think it's worth it. Still worth keeping in mind in case that ratio shifts significantly.

Analemma_ 4y ago

It's easy to turn off the JIT if you want - you can even do it on the iPhone now. It makes the web dogshit slow and is a fundamental nonstarter of an idea. A slightly more feasible way forward here is replacing JavaScript with dear god anything else but JavaScript but that's a long way off. WebAssembly seems to have stalled.

sjtgraham 4y ago
It’s not really noticeable on an iPhone 13 Pro. Just an FYI if you’re on latest hardware.
cebert 4y ago
Are you on a very old iPhone model? I haven’t found disabling jit to be noticeably slower on my iPhone 13 when running iOS 16 in “Lockdown Mode”. The Microsoft Edge team has benchmarks supporting the impact is minimal on Chromium based browsers too (https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Secure-Mode/ https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec...).
staticassertion 4y ago
> WebAssembly seems to have stalled. Can you elaborate?