4 ms·

i wonder if any smart locks are down, people being locked in or out of their AirBNBs would be pretty funny.

dylan604 4y ago
of all things to connect to a smart home, the locks to my house would be the absolute bottom of the list. i hate coming home when the power is out and cannot open the garage door. i couldn't imagine not being able to get in at all. as far as not getting out, any lock unable to be unlocked from inside seems like something should not be allowed to be made. ever.
- readams 4y ago
  I think consumer smart locks still let you use the regular lock if the power is out.
- hatware 4y ago
  How long do you think batteries last?
  - dylan604 4y ago
    you ask that like you are challenging my idea of not ever using smart locks on my home. instead, you're bringing up another reason to support that decision. so, which direction were you attempting to move the needle?
    - hatware 4y ago
      Batteries going out have never locked me out of my home. Seems like you're putting way too much thought into something that probably won't happen, being 2022 with notifications and all. I don't justify my choices with 0.1% chances.
      - takeda 4y ago
        You seem to put trust in technology to do important tasks, when they have problems securing a stupid light bulbs. There's a joke about it: Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future! Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
        dylan604 4y ago
        I don't have gun for that, but a baseball bat instead. That scene from Office Space made such an impression, and I swear one day, I will recreate it on a piece of gear that steps out of line.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  The locks are purely additive in functionality, they lose nothing compared to a manual lock. It still has a key for manual unlocking, still has the twist knob on the inside. But now I can see the status of the lock if I'm away from home, and I can lock it remotely if necessary. I can give out a keypad code to a house sitter. Or I can let someone in real-time from remote. All my 'smarthome' technology at home is this way. Nothing requires the Internet to work, and if the server fails then only the automation itself stops; all of the switches, locks, and such just fail back into working like any old school switch/lock/etc.
- jcrawfordor 4y ago
  Just a few notes: 1. I'm not aware of any smart lock that cannot be locked and unlocked manually from the inside. This would violate fire code for residential structures in a lot of US jurisdictions. 2. Electronic locks in general are either line-powered or battery-powered. Line-powered locks are unusual in residential environments because of the higher complexity of installation (they're more often strikeplates than actuators, although in-door actuators are available). Battery-powered locks take one of two approaches to resolving power issues: most commonly on residential locks, there is still a key cylinder on the outside to manually lock and unlock. Less commonly on residential locks but more typical of commercial ones, there may be no key cylinder but instead an external connector that allows the programming tool (very common on commercial systems) or a 9v battery (common on residential units) to be connected to provide external power. 3. Cloud-reliant smart locks are pretty rare for practical reasons. Most are still fully functional (often minus remote control via app, but not always) without internet service. Even most commercial systems fall back to cached credentials in the door controller when the connection to the access server is lost, although annoyingly some of the newer "smarter" systems don't.
  - AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
    I have the Nest/Yale lock without the key, it definitively is not reliant on the Nest cloud being up (or internet working) for access, only to remotely lock/unlock or to program new codes. Do any locks actually fail to work with an already programmed PIN code if the internet is out? That seems like a massive failure. Go to dinner and your router crashes and you can't get back inside to fix it? Wow.
    - jcrawfordor 4y ago
      The only examples I know of are commercial systems, and specifically "cutting edge" commercial systems that are completely IP-based and cloud-managed. These are honestly kind of a disaster and I hope they don't catch on; they can be cheaper to install than conventional commercial systems (with ACU cabinets) but they achieve that cheapness by abandoning most of the reliability and security features of conventional designs. That said some of these get installed fail-open (e.g. loss of management means they stay unlocked) for fire egress reasons.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  Every smart or electronic lock I've used just augments the deadbolt and still has your physical key and its tumbler lock as a backup. I have an electronic deadbolt and have never gotten locked out even when its battery dies.
- giaour 4y ago
  > as far as not getting out, any lock unable to be unlocked from inside seems like something should not be allowed to be made. ever. This would vary by jurisdiction, but locks without an unlock lever are usually prohibited by the fire code.
  - chasd00 4y ago
    interesting. my back door has a deadbolt requiring a key on both sides. ..it's an old house.
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      Why have you left it like that? Yeah it's against fire codes, but for a very good reason: it's incredibly unsafe.
    - giaour 4y ago
      My house still has a deadbolt like that, too. They were popular for a while, especially on doors with large glass panes (so that would-be intruders couldn’t smash the glass and unlock the door w/o a key).
  - sslayer 4y ago
    Yet they exist, with a whole industry built around them
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  I have Z-Wave locks and have no problem having them as part of my smart home. The 4x Lithium AA batteries in them last over a year, they don't talk to a "cloud service", but instead a physical server that I have total control over, and you can still use an old-fashioned key to unlock them.
- disillusioned 4y ago
  My Smart Lock: * Stores codes on the device itself and still unlocks with no internet connectivity * Is a physical deadbolt inside that works without power * If the lock itself runs out of battery power from the OUTSIDE, you can "jump" it with a 9-volt battery * Allows me to auto-lock after X period of time, or at night * Allows me to NEVER carry keys, ever. Or ever have to worry about keys. * Allows me to manage multiple, time-boxed codes for people (housekeeper can't get in at midnight) It's pretty damn great, honestly. And I stow a 9-volt in a flower box in case of emergency. (You still need to know the code, obviously.) It's also absolutely pick-proof/bump-proof because it has no key at all. Not even a backup key. It's the Yale x Nest lock and is really really nice.
CobrastanJorji 4y ago
One hopes the us-west data centers don't use smart locks. Remember the Facebook incident a while back?
- dylan604 4y ago
  You'll find that they are using Nest instead of Ring locks so that it turns out this is a Goog v AMZN adversarial attack.

of all things to connect to a smart home, the locks to my house would be the absolute bottom of the list. i hate coming home when the power is out and cannot open the garage door. i couldn't imagine not being able to get in at all. as far as not getting out, any lock unable to be unlocked from inside seems like something should not be allowed to be made. ever.

readams 4y ago
I think consumer smart locks still let you use the regular lock if the power is out.
hatware 4y ago
How long do you think batteries last?
- dylan604 4y ago
  you ask that like you are challenging my idea of not ever using smart locks on my home. instead, you're bringing up another reason to support that decision. so, which direction were you attempting to move the needle?
  - hatware 4y ago
    Batteries going out have never locked me out of my home. Seems like you're putting way too much thought into something that probably won't happen, being 2022 with notifications and all. I don't justify my choices with 0.1% chances.
    - takeda 4y ago
      You seem to put trust in technology to do important tasks, when they have problems securing a stupid light bulbs. There's a joke about it: Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future! Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        I don't have gun for that, but a baseball bat instead. That scene from Office Space made such an impression, and I swear one day, I will recreate it on a piece of gear that steps out of line.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
rootusrootus 4y ago
The locks are purely additive in functionality, they lose nothing compared to a manual lock. It still has a key for manual unlocking, still has the twist knob on the inside. But now I can see the status of the lock if I'm away from home, and I can lock it remotely if necessary. I can give out a keypad code to a house sitter. Or I can let someone in real-time from remote. All my 'smarthome' technology at home is this way. Nothing requires the Internet to work, and if the server fails then only the automation itself stops; all of the switches, locks, and such just fail back into working like any old school switch/lock/etc.
jcrawfordor 4y ago
Just a few notes: 1. I'm not aware of any smart lock that cannot be locked and unlocked manually from the inside. This would violate fire code for residential structures in a lot of US jurisdictions. 2. Electronic locks in general are either line-powered or battery-powered. Line-powered locks are unusual in residential environments because of the higher complexity of installation (they're more often strikeplates than actuators, although in-door actuators are available). Battery-powered locks take one of two approaches to resolving power issues: most commonly on residential locks, there is still a key cylinder on the outside to manually lock and unlock. Less commonly on residential locks but more typical of commercial ones, there may be no key cylinder but instead an external connector that allows the programming tool (very common on commercial systems) or a 9v battery (common on residential units) to be connected to provide external power. 3. Cloud-reliant smart locks are pretty rare for practical reasons. Most are still fully functional (often minus remote control via app, but not always) without internet service. Even most commercial systems fall back to cached credentials in the door controller when the connection to the access server is lost, although annoyingly some of the newer "smarter" systems don't.
- AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
  I have the Nest/Yale lock without the key, it definitively is not reliant on the Nest cloud being up (or internet working) for access, only to remotely lock/unlock or to program new codes. Do any locks actually fail to work with an already programmed PIN code if the internet is out? That seems like a massive failure. Go to dinner and your router crashes and you can't get back inside to fix it? Wow.
  - jcrawfordor 4y ago
    The only examples I know of are commercial systems, and specifically "cutting edge" commercial systems that are completely IP-based and cloud-managed. These are honestly kind of a disaster and I hope they don't catch on; they can be cheaper to install than conventional commercial systems (with ACU cabinets) but they achieve that cheapness by abandoning most of the reliability and security features of conventional designs. That said some of these get installed fail-open (e.g. loss of management means they stay unlocked) for fire egress reasons.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Every smart or electronic lock I've used just augments the deadbolt and still has your physical key and its tumbler lock as a backup. I have an electronic deadbolt and have never gotten locked out even when its battery dies.
giaour 4y ago
> as far as not getting out, any lock unable to be unlocked from inside seems like something should not be allowed to be made. ever. This would vary by jurisdiction, but locks without an unlock lever are usually prohibited by the fire code.
- chasd00 4y ago
  interesting. my back door has a deadbolt requiring a key on both sides. ..it's an old house.
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    Why have you left it like that? Yeah it's against fire codes, but for a very good reason: it's incredibly unsafe.
  - giaour 4y ago
    My house still has a deadbolt like that, too. They were popular for a while, especially on doors with large glass panes (so that would-be intruders couldn’t smash the glass and unlock the door w/o a key).
- sslayer 4y ago
  Yet they exist, with a whole industry built around them
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
oceanplexian 4y ago
I have Z-Wave locks and have no problem having them as part of my smart home. The 4x Lithium AA batteries in them last over a year, they don't talk to a "cloud service", but instead a physical server that I have total control over, and you can still use an old-fashioned key to unlock them.
disillusioned 4y ago
My Smart Lock: * Stores codes on the device itself and still unlocks with no internet connectivity * Is a physical deadbolt inside that works without power * If the lock itself runs out of battery power from the OUTSIDE, you can "jump" it with a 9-volt battery * Allows me to auto-lock after X period of time, or at night * Allows me to NEVER carry keys, ever. Or ever have to worry about keys. * Allows me to manage multiple, time-boxed codes for people (housekeeper can't get in at midnight) It's pretty damn great, honestly. And I stow a 9-volt in a flower box in case of emergency. (You still need to know the code, obviously.) It's also absolutely pick-proof/bump-proof because it has no key at all. Not even a backup key. It's the Yale x Nest lock and is really really nice.

CobrastanJorji 4y ago

One hopes the us-west data centers don't use smart locks. Remember the Facebook incident a while back?

dylan604 4y ago
You'll find that they are using Nest instead of Ring locks so that it turns out this is a Goog v AMZN adversarial attack.