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> is that high enough such that it won't reveal individuals' salary, and thus a privacy violation Why do you consider that a privacy violation? I know in the

> is that high enough such that it won't reveal individuals' salary, and thus a privacy violation Why do you consider that a privacy violation? I know in the US people are very touchy about it, but in other countries pay information is public. And pay for immigrants in the US is public as well (H1-B salary info is public). And also some companies have public salary information as well. And anyone who works for the government already has public salaries, as well as top executives at any public company. It feels like moving towards public salary information would go a long way towards addressing pay inequality.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Just to expound for a bit, labor market efficiency would be increased by income transparency. We all want our markets operating with as few distortions as possible, right?
timr 4y ago
You don't need an individual's salary to "address pay inequality". You need statistics along the axes of inequality that you choose to care about (which is another discussion altogether...) Pointing out (rightly) that H1B salaries are public is not a great argument; I think it's pretty lousy that we publish the salaries of individual immigrants. We should stop doing that, and publish anonymized data instead. But at the end of the day, there's no law of the universe that any piece of information should or shouldn't be public. These are cultural norms, and fairly debated.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  That's funny; this "cultural norm" only seems to exist when employees are concerned, while employers of course share your salary history widely and frequently. Equifax "The Work Number" boasts some 573 million records, of which they have leaked at least 170 million in the past. It seems you are getting played; markets, of course, profit from optimal information.
  - timr 4y ago
    ...and I don't support that, either.
dmitrygr 4y ago
> Why do you consider that a privacy violation? Because that is the culture in USA. You finding it weird is not a reason to be dismissive.
- jedberg 4y ago
  I never said I found it weird, nor was I being dismissive. I was asking OP to question their own assumptions. Their default assumption was "salary is private" and I wanted them to ask themselves why they feel that way.
  - notinfuriated 4y ago
    I suppose it's a good question, but I'd also ask people to justify why they think it isn't private. Really though, I haven't thought about this question much. I'll give it a shot: I were going on a first date, and the woman asked me as getting-to-know-you small-talk, "What is your annual salary?" I would find this off-putting. Same if I were meeting her parents sometime later and they asked me. I'd find it strange if a neighbor asked me, or if a used car salesman asked me, etc. My default assumption, if someone asks me my salary, is to think about for what purpose would they want to know this information, as the knowledge of my salary would imply they intend to treat me differently based on my response. (So in the case of a first date, I could say a number where she responds, "That's not enough for me!" and gets up to leave. Or for a car salesman, he might say, "Oh, well, this car is usually $15,000, but for you it is $16,000.") The only cases where I find this to be a reasonable request is when I'm applying for a loan or credit, as I think it's fair for underwriters to want to be able to calculate whether or not they think I'm good to pay them back (and, on my end, I'm expecting to receive temporarily-free money from them, so the transaction is not one-sided). Now, I don't think that's automatically the case with a law like this, but I don't think it's not the case either! So I have a continued expectation that my salary is Nunya. Unless someone can pose a convincing argument that it ought not be private, or if such a law would also prohibit my employer or others treating me differently with the knowledge of my salary, I will not support laws like these.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
bombcar 4y ago
If everyone's pay was public, it wouldn't be a major issue and nobody would care. But if only a few people's pay ends up being public, it will cause issues.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Government employees pay is already public. I assume the only people with a problem with it know they are not worth as much more than others as their compensation suggests.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

Just to expound for a bit, labor market efficiency would be increased by income transparency. We all want our markets operating with as few distortions as possible, right?

timr 4y ago

You don't need an individual's salary to "address pay inequality". You need statistics along the axes of inequality that you choose to care about (which is another discussion altogether...) Pointing out (rightly) that H1B salaries are public is not a great argument; I think it's pretty lousy that we publish the salaries of individual immigrants. We should stop doing that, and publish anonymized data instead. But at the end of the day, there's no law of the universe that any piece of information should or shouldn't be public. These are cultural norms, and fairly debated.

stefan_ 4y ago
That's funny; this "cultural norm" only seems to exist when employees are concerned, while employers of course share your salary history widely and frequently. Equifax "The Work Number" boasts some 573 million records, of which they have leaked at least 170 million in the past. It seems you are getting played; markets, of course, profit from optimal information.
- timr 4y ago
  ...and I don't support that, either.

dmitrygr 4y ago

> Why do you consider that a privacy violation? Because that is the culture in USA. You finding it weird is not a reason to be dismissive.

jedberg 4y ago
I never said I found it weird, nor was I being dismissive. I was asking OP to question their own assumptions. Their default assumption was "salary is private" and I wanted them to ask themselves why they feel that way.
- notinfuriated 4y ago
  I suppose it's a good question, but I'd also ask people to justify why they think it isn't private. Really though, I haven't thought about this question much. I'll give it a shot: I were going on a first date, and the woman asked me as getting-to-know-you small-talk, "What is your annual salary?" I would find this off-putting. Same if I were meeting her parents sometime later and they asked me. I'd find it strange if a neighbor asked me, or if a used car salesman asked me, etc. My default assumption, if someone asks me my salary, is to think about for what purpose would they want to know this information, as the knowledge of my salary would imply they intend to treat me differently based on my response. (So in the case of a first date, I could say a number where she responds, "That's not enough for me!" and gets up to leave. Or for a car salesman, he might say, "Oh, well, this car is usually $15,000, but for you it is $16,000.") The only cases where I find this to be a reasonable request is when I'm applying for a loan or credit, as I think it's fair for underwriters to want to be able to calculate whether or not they think I'm good to pay them back (and, on my end, I'm expecting to receive temporarily-free money from them, so the transaction is not one-sided). Now, I don't think that's automatically the case with a law like this, but I don't think it's not the case either! So I have a continued expectation that my salary is Nunya. Unless someone can pose a convincing argument that it ought not be private, or if such a law would also prohibit my employer or others treating me differently with the knowledge of my salary, I will not support laws like these.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

If everyone's pay was public, it wouldn't be a major issue and nobody would care. But if only a few people's pay ends up being public, it will cause issues.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
Government employees pay is already public. I assume the only people with a problem with it know they are not worth as much more than others as their compensation suggests.