6 ms·

It was amazing at doing.... what? You've just listed a bunch of hardware functionalities without actually saying what you managed to use it for.

Morgawr 4y ago
They mentioned editing documents
yosamino 4y ago
All the things you would use a phone for in the early 2010s: * Phone calls * Video calls over XMPP * Text/XMPP messaging * Web browsing * Document editing * Writing and receiving email * Playing music ( it had a built in FM transmitter - how cool was that!) * Setting Alarms * weather widgets * Writing PHP programms * Writing python programms * ssh-ing into servers * gps navigation * take and share pictures * multi-colored status LEDs * it had usb-otg so you could use as a flash drive * share an gsm internet connection via USB Some of these things work better with a touch screen - some work better with a slide-out physical keyboard... it was just a really good device.
- ElCheapo 4y ago
  Was my post confusing? Nothing you've written can't be done with an Android phone with a keyboard attachment. When is this super important general purpose computing thingy supposed to come into play?
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    The key is the keyboard is integrated and foldable, it's the convenience and portability that is key. With an android (with two exceptions), you have to have two separate pieces, something to put them on and then pair and charge both parts. In short: You can pull it out of your pocket anywhere, type something with both thumbs on a full keyboard, then fold it down again in seconds. There are Android phones with a full keyboard as well, but they are closed source/hardware.
    - ElCheapo 4y ago
      Your reply is baffling. First you say that with "android" (as if they made hardware) you can't have an integrated keyboard. Then you say that Android phones with a full integrated keyboard actually exist. But then you move the goalpost saying that they aren't open source/hardware. Which is false, by the way, since this device [https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1 https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1] runs LineageOS, and phones with completely free software down to the firmware level don't exist, including the N900 which needs a binary blob to start the wifi module (as far as I know) and whose hardware is not open source in the slightest. And even after all of this I've been given zero use cases that an Android phone can't provide with the proper application installed.
      - dspillett 4y ago
        > But then you move the goalpost Let us be fair here: you moved the goalposts first by going from “it is an absolute fantasy” to, once people pointed out that they already exist, “but I can't see a use for one”.
        ElCheapo 4y ago
        >Let us be fair here Why even say this if you immediately proceed by not being fair? Pocketable computers are not a "fantasy" in the sense that there aren't any devices capable of running a desktop OS while being pocketable. This was never the argument, as also demonstrated by my other replies in the thread. My argument is that using a pocketable device as a desktop or laptop is a fantasy. It's something that sounds very cool on paper and which has a small cult following, but in reality all these people would fare even better if someone wrote an Android app tailored to their use case.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        Then it's an unfalsifiable argument and people are wasting their time discussing it with you in good faith. After I got my N900, I didn't feel a need to bring my laptop on short vacations, because I could do everything on it that I could on my laptop. But no matter what I say, you believe I'd be better served with a complete suite of apps that both are specifically tailored for me and don't exist. Of course that's true. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you wrote an entire gnutils userspace for Android, and gave me a slide out keyboard instead of obliterating half my screen if I need to do input, you would have given me something that is almost identical to an N900.
  - rowanG077 4y ago
    You can transmit FM radio on Android with a keyboard attachment? How?
    - misnome 4y ago
      Depends how fast you can type, I suppose....
    - ElCheapo 4y ago
      How is the presence of an antenna in any way demonstrative of the general purpose computing capabilities of the N900 as opposed to "not pocketable PC" Androids? I believe that if I were to attach a USB radio module to my phone I could write an Android app to make use of it as a trasmitter.
      - rjsw 4y ago
        The point of the FM transmitter was to be able to use the N900 with a car head unit to play music from the phone.
        freedomben 4y ago
        Oh wow, that's a badass feature. I'm legit impressed (this is not sarcasm)
        rjsw 4y ago
        There are FM dongles that plug into a headphone socket, but building it into the phone from the start says to me that Nokia really knew how people would want to use it.
      - rowanG077 4y ago
        If the point is you can transform an android device into a general purpose machine if you use unenumerable amounts of hardware addons and hacks. Then yes, of course you are right. It will be unuseable in practice which is generally what people want to do.
  - yosamino 4y ago
    > Was my post confusing? I possibly misunderstood what you were getting at. You are right - an android with a a keyboard is certainly not all that different.
- throw10920 4y ago
  While all of these things are possible on a tiny PC, many of them are very sub-optimal - like how many languages are Turing-complete but not of equivalent use (e.g. assembly is not as useful as Rust in the vast majority of programming domains). Things like "writing PHP/Python programs" and "document editing", while things that you can do on a pocket-sized laptop, are much better to do on a real laptop or desktop. A tiny PC will strain your eyes, decrease your reading, typing and interaction speed, hurt your neck, and react slowly relative to a full computer - regardless of whether you're using a soft-keyboard or a physical (but tiny) hardware keyboard. Although ElCheapo may have thrown a lot of unnecessary junk into their comments, their point "The medium is the message, the form is the functionality." is still true - you don't want to use C# for tiny (kilobytes RAM) embedded devices and you don't want to use this pocket PC for writing code, even though you can.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    I used to think the only proper way of reading books is paper (or at least large format eink) but I see most people these days reading from tiny phone screens. Thanks to increased mobility they easily do it where it's too much hassle for me. For many people with good eyesight it is just fine to use a small screen for programming.
    - throw10920 4y ago
      Whether or not a large number of people do something isn't really relevant to whether its efficient or healthy. Many people in the US have addictions to social media (unhealthy) and use few keyboard shortcuts (inefficient) and draft emails on phone keyboards (inefficient). It's also not fine to use a small screen for programming even if you have good eyesight, as it will worsen your eyesight even if you hold it as far away from your body as you can with your arms straight - the constant focusing on an object near your face will cause your eye muscles to weaken and give you myopia. You'll also damage your neck unless you hold your phone at eye (or at least chest) level - something that I've seen literally nobody do.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
- danans 4y ago
  > * Writing PHP programms > * Writing python programms Honest question: what is a real world use case for writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7" display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop. I can't imagine writing code while standing on a train, for example. But more important, I'm having trouble imagining what kind of work situation would require that.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > Honest question: what is a real world use case for writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7" display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop A computer you can take everywhere when you need to squeeze in extra computer-time into any unplanned free moment opportunistically (e.g. Leetcode practice, dissertation crunch), or being on call and only need ssh & chat access 24/7. I carried a high-DPI 7" tablet with a keyboard case to good effect. It was less of a physical burden than lugging around a 13-incher, and was inconspicuous when outdoors or places I may have felt unsafe carrying a laptop
    - danans 4y ago
      > It was less of a physical burden than lugging around a 13-incher, I guess this is a very personal thing, but I've always found the weight difference between a 7" tablet and a slim 13" laptop to be pretty minimal, and I walk-commute on average 3 miles a day carrying a laptop. > and was inconspicuous when outdoors or places I may have felt unsafe carrying a laptop It's probably a lifestyle choice, but if I were to feel unsafe using a laptop in a space, I probably wouldn't be able to focus enough to work, and instead of using a less conspicuous device, I would relocate somewhere that I felt safe. Also if I were on-call I would doubly want to be in a place where I felt I could focus completely on my work. I don't doubt that the market niche for inconspicuous general purpose computing devices exists, but I don't think it's huge.
      - rchaud 4y ago
        It doesn't have to only be about safety. I can't use my MBP 13 on the fold out tray of a coach seat. There are times where a less conspicuous device comes in handy.
- riedel 4y ago
  Playing text adventures was a nice past time. I had Psion those days and a Nokia 6800. I really wonder what it would be like to have a nice android phone with a keyboard those days... But I guess this is mostly nostalgia.
- ynx 4y ago
  As the owner of a PinePhone with the battery+keyboard...it's hot garbage at most of those. Pass. I'll take a laptop.
brokenkebab2 4y ago
For example I could prepare presentations with it, or deal with long emails, and write code - all day long. While it was less comfortable compared to full-sized PC, it was normal, alright. Appearing in the same situation with any modern smartphone I would surrender immediately, because it would be literally crippling experience. Not to mention that it was technically much more flexible.
tluyben2 4y ago
When I travelled a lot, I just brought a pocket Linux machine with keyboard (first the Zaurus, then Pandora, then GDP Pocket 1) and that was all a lot more comfortable hauling along than my laptop. I didn't have to do stretches of programming, but for small changes, or some server management, it was great. I am waiting for the Astro Slide with Linux to arrive.
INTPenis 4y ago
I had one, my brother had one, honestly it was shit at everything you expect from a phone. The only good point about it was that it had a full and integrated keyboard, and a Linux based OS you could use to manage your servers over ssh in extreme cases. Answering calls on it was a hit or miss, the UI just froze for several seconds from the incredible stress of suddenly starting up the phone app when someone called you. I'd much rather 1) separate my work from my personal life and 2) have a laptop in a backpack for when I know I might have to do work.
unregistereddev 4y ago
The integrated keyboard had a tab key, so autocomplete worked on the terminal. This was a really big deal that made the tiny keyboard much more useful for real work. The Maemo distribution that the N900 ran was based on debian, and you could point apt to the standard package repositories to install pretty much any Linux software. This opened many, many possibilities - for example, I had an always-on computer in my pocket with WireShark installed. I could (and did) occasionally sniff wireless traffic to troubleshoot something. If you couldn't find a mobile app that would do what you wanted, you could usually install a desktop app and it'd work (though sometimes the UI was awkward on that small screen). While most of the functionality can be replicated on a modern Android device, these pocket computers were different in a special way. The integrated physical keyboard, the tab key, the full Linux kernel and apt, all combined to create an experience that was distinctly different from Android. It really felt like a pocket-sized workstation - it was a full computer first, and pocket-sized second. Android smartphones are pocket-sized mobile devices first, and potential workstations second.
type0 4y ago
> It was amazing at doing.... what? at being general purpose computer

Morgawr 4y ago

They mentioned editing documents

yosamino 4y ago

All the things you would use a phone for in the early 2010s: * Phone calls * Video calls over XMPP * Text/XMPP messaging * Web browsing * Document editing * Writing and receiving email * Playing music ( it had a built in FM transmitter - how cool was that!) * Setting Alarms * weather widgets * Writing PHP programms * Writing python programms * ssh-ing into servers * gps navigation * take and share pictures * multi-colored status LEDs * it had usb-otg so you could use as a flash drive * share an gsm internet connection via USB Some of these things work better with a touch screen - some work better with a slide-out physical keyboard... it was just a really good device.

ElCheapo 4y ago
Was my post confusing? Nothing you've written can't be done with an Android phone with a keyboard attachment. When is this super important general purpose computing thingy supposed to come into play?
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  The key is the keyboard is integrated and foldable, it's the convenience and portability that is key. With an android (with two exceptions), you have to have two separate pieces, something to put them on and then pair and charge both parts. In short: You can pull it out of your pocket anywhere, type something with both thumbs on a full keyboard, then fold it down again in seconds. There are Android phones with a full keyboard as well, but they are closed source/hardware.
  - ElCheapo 4y ago
    Your reply is baffling. First you say that with "android" (as if they made hardware) you can't have an integrated keyboard. Then you say that Android phones with a full integrated keyboard actually exist. But then you move the goalpost saying that they aren't open source/hardware. Which is false, by the way, since this device [https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1 https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1] runs LineageOS, and phones with completely free software down to the firmware level don't exist, including the N900 which needs a binary blob to start the wifi module (as far as I know) and whose hardware is not open source in the slightest. And even after all of this I've been given zero use cases that an Android phone can't provide with the proper application installed.
    - dspillett 4y ago
      > But then you move the goalpost Let us be fair here: you moved the goalposts first by going from “it is an absolute fantasy” to, once people pointed out that they already exist, “but I can't see a use for one”.
      - ElCheapo 4y ago
        >Let us be fair here Why even say this if you immediately proceed by not being fair? Pocketable computers are not a "fantasy" in the sense that there aren't any devices capable of running a desktop OS while being pocketable. This was never the argument, as also demonstrated by my other replies in the thread. My argument is that using a pocketable device as a desktop or laptop is a fantasy. It's something that sounds very cool on paper and which has a small cult following, but in reality all these people would fare even better if someone wrote an Android app tailored to their use case.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        Then it's an unfalsifiable argument and people are wasting their time discussing it with you in good faith. After I got my N900, I didn't feel a need to bring my laptop on short vacations, because I could do everything on it that I could on my laptop. But no matter what I say, you believe I'd be better served with a complete suite of apps that both are specifically tailored for me and don't exist. Of course that's true. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you wrote an entire gnutils userspace for Android, and gave me a slide out keyboard instead of obliterating half my screen if I need to do input, you would have given me something that is almost identical to an N900.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  You can transmit FM radio on Android with a keyboard attachment? How?
  - misnome 4y ago
    Depends how fast you can type, I suppose....
  - ElCheapo 4y ago
    How is the presence of an antenna in any way demonstrative of the general purpose computing capabilities of the N900 as opposed to "not pocketable PC" Androids? I believe that if I were to attach a USB radio module to my phone I could write an Android app to make use of it as a trasmitter.
    - rjsw 4y ago
      The point of the FM transmitter was to be able to use the N900 with a car head unit to play music from the phone.
      - freedomben 4y ago
        Oh wow, that's a badass feature. I'm legit impressed (this is not sarcasm)
        rjsw 4y ago
        There are FM dongles that plug into a headphone socket, but building it into the phone from the start says to me that Nokia really knew how people would want to use it.
    - rowanG077 4y ago
      If the point is you can transform an android device into a general purpose machine if you use unenumerable amounts of hardware addons and hacks. Then yes, of course you are right. It will be unuseable in practice which is generally what people want to do.
- yosamino 4y ago
  > Was my post confusing? I possibly misunderstood what you were getting at. You are right - an android with a a keyboard is certainly not all that different.
throw10920 4y ago
While all of these things are possible on a tiny PC, many of them are very sub-optimal - like how many languages are Turing-complete but not of equivalent use (e.g. assembly is not as useful as Rust in the vast majority of programming domains). Things like "writing PHP/Python programs" and "document editing", while things that you can do on a pocket-sized laptop, are much better to do on a real laptop or desktop. A tiny PC will strain your eyes, decrease your reading, typing and interaction speed, hurt your neck, and react slowly relative to a full computer - regardless of whether you're using a soft-keyboard or a physical (but tiny) hardware keyboard. Although ElCheapo may have thrown a lot of unnecessary junk into their comments, their point "The medium is the message, the form is the functionality." is still true - you don't want to use C# for tiny (kilobytes RAM) embedded devices and you don't want to use this pocket PC for writing code, even though you can.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I used to think the only proper way of reading books is paper (or at least large format eink) but I see most people these days reading from tiny phone screens. Thanks to increased mobility they easily do it where it's too much hassle for me. For many people with good eyesight it is just fine to use a small screen for programming.
  - throw10920 4y ago
    Whether or not a large number of people do something isn't really relevant to whether its efficient or healthy. Many people in the US have addictions to social media (unhealthy) and use few keyboard shortcuts (inefficient) and draft emails on phone keyboards (inefficient). It's also not fine to use a small screen for programming even if you have good eyesight, as it will worsen your eyesight even if you hold it as far away from your body as you can with your arms straight - the constant focusing on an object near your face will cause your eye muscles to weaken and give you myopia. You'll also damage your neck unless you hold your phone at eye (or at least chest) level - something that I've seen literally nobody do.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
danans 4y ago
> * Writing PHP programms > * Writing python programms Honest question: what is a real world use case for writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7" display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop. I can't imagine writing code while standing on a train, for example. But more important, I'm having trouble imagining what kind of work situation would require that.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > Honest question: what is a real world use case for writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7" display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop A computer you can take everywhere when you need to squeeze in extra computer-time into any unplanned free moment opportunistically (e.g. Leetcode practice, dissertation crunch), or being on call and only need ssh & chat access 24/7. I carried a high-DPI 7" tablet with a keyboard case to good effect. It was less of a physical burden than lugging around a 13-incher, and was inconspicuous when outdoors or places I may have felt unsafe carrying a laptop
  - danans 4y ago
    > It was less of a physical burden than lugging around a 13-incher, I guess this is a very personal thing, but I've always found the weight difference between a 7" tablet and a slim 13" laptop to be pretty minimal, and I walk-commute on average 3 miles a day carrying a laptop. > and was inconspicuous when outdoors or places I may have felt unsafe carrying a laptop It's probably a lifestyle choice, but if I were to feel unsafe using a laptop in a space, I probably wouldn't be able to focus enough to work, and instead of using a less conspicuous device, I would relocate somewhere that I felt safe. Also if I were on-call I would doubly want to be in a place where I felt I could focus completely on my work. I don't doubt that the market niche for inconspicuous general purpose computing devices exists, but I don't think it's huge.
    - rchaud 4y ago
      It doesn't have to only be about safety. I can't use my MBP 13 on the fold out tray of a coach seat. There are times where a less conspicuous device comes in handy.
riedel 4y ago
Playing text adventures was a nice past time. I had Psion those days and a Nokia 6800. I really wonder what it would be like to have a nice android phone with a keyboard those days... But I guess this is mostly nostalgia.
ynx 4y ago
As the owner of a PinePhone with the battery+keyboard...it's hot garbage at most of those. Pass. I'll take a laptop.

brokenkebab2 4y ago

For example I could prepare presentations with it, or deal with long emails, and write code - all day long. While it was less comfortable compared to full-sized PC, it was normal, alright. Appearing in the same situation with any modern smartphone I would surrender immediately, because it would be literally crippling experience. Not to mention that it was technically much more flexible.

tluyben2 4y ago

When I travelled a lot, I just brought a pocket Linux machine with keyboard (first the Zaurus, then Pandora, then GDP Pocket 1) and that was all a lot more comfortable hauling along than my laptop. I didn't have to do stretches of programming, but for small changes, or some server management, it was great. I am waiting for the Astro Slide with Linux to arrive.

INTPenis 4y ago

I had one, my brother had one, honestly it was shit at everything you expect from a phone. The only good point about it was that it had a full and integrated keyboard, and a Linux based OS you could use to manage your servers over ssh in extreme cases. Answering calls on it was a hit or miss, the UI just froze for several seconds from the incredible stress of suddenly starting up the phone app when someone called you. I'd much rather 1) separate my work from my personal life and 2) have a laptop in a backpack for when I know I might have to do work.

unregistereddev 4y ago

The integrated keyboard had a tab key, so autocomplete worked on the terminal. This was a really big deal that made the tiny keyboard much more useful for real work. The Maemo distribution that the N900 ran was based on debian, and you could point apt to the standard package repositories to install pretty much any Linux software. This opened many, many possibilities - for example, I had an always-on computer in my pocket with WireShark installed. I could (and did) occasionally sniff wireless traffic to troubleshoot something. If you couldn't find a mobile app that would do what you wanted, you could usually install a desktop app and it'd work (though sometimes the UI was awkward on that small screen). While most of the functionality can be replicated on a modern Android device, these pocket computers were different in a special way. The integrated physical keyboard, the tab key, the full Linux kernel and apt, all combined to create an experience that was distinctly different from Android. It really felt like a pocket-sized workstation - it was a full computer first, and pocket-sized second. Android smartphones are pocket-sized mobile devices first, and potential workstations second.

type0 4y ago

> It was amazing at doing.... what? at being general purpose computer