4 ms·

In my opinion EVE is the greatest MMO ever created. I've played and enjoyed other MMOs like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, a few others, but nothing else even c

In my opinion EVE is the greatest MMO ever created. I've played and enjoyed other MMOs like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, a few others, but nothing else even comes close to the experience of playing EVE. The very real stakes of losing your ship, cargo, implants, changes the game entirely. Venturing into low/null sec can be genuinely terrifying when you don't know what's on the other side of that warp gate. And then there's the enormous breadth of gameplay options. You can be a high sec carebear and happily farm asteroids in relative safety or play the market and never even undock. You can live out your fantasy of being a space trucker and pick up contracts in your freighter. You can join a nullsec corp in player controlled space and participate in the absolutely ludicrous (in a good way) nullsec PvP. You can stalk other players in wormholes in your stealth bomber for literal days, popping out and killing them right when they finally think it's safe. The stories that are generated from its sandbox gameplay make it very unique in gaming. Unfortunately it's also an enormous time sink and I don't play it anymore. If I could play EVE 18 hours a day I probably would, but it's a very difficult game (for me anyway) to play for maybe an hour a day and feel like I made any real progress.

awelxtr 4y ago
Yup, being an enormous time sink it's one of my major gripes with the game. I guess it is also what makes it one of the most hardcore games in existence... Right next to OGame
- coenhyde 4y ago
  I've never played EVE Online, but that is a not because I don't want to. It's basically the game I dreamed about as a kid. And I know if I play, I will want to win, but you can't win, you can only dominate; by investing lots and lots of time. People say I'm not missing much because it's a spreadsheet in space. Unfortunately that sounds right up my alley. I love games where I can find tiny optimizations and compound them into an unchallengeable force. But if I have the time to build a space empire, I have the time to build a new startup empire in real life, which I don't.
  - roganartu 4y ago
    > I will want to win, but you can't win, you can only dominate It is common for EVE players to refer to quitting as "winning EVE". I won EVE around 7 years ago after falling 800-hours-in-6-months deep into the optimisation black hole you describe and realising it was immensely fun but unsustainable.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    >I have the time to build a new startup empire in real life, which I don't. Real life doesn't work that way, you will first have to work 20 years under the previous emperor.
hypertele-Xii 4y ago
Seems to me it's mostly empty space with menus on top. To me, the essence of video games is that play takes place in an interesting space, where terrain matters and a variety of things occupy it. It would be trivial to recreate the EVE experience in literally any MMO by just having permadeath. And then most other MMOs would be better than EVE because they actually have worlds with stuff in them. Or maybe they don't and it's just a thin facade, in which case I simply recommend playing better games. Am I missing something?
- GauntletWizard 4y ago
  You're not wrong, you're just not the target audience. It's not for visual thinkers. Eve Online is a spreadsheet simulator in so many ways, but for the people who enjoy those spreadsheets, whether they be market buy/sell prices or times of day that idiots in blinged out ratting ships are playing, that's what keeps them going. The space theme is pretty, but not really the point. The harshness of the universe is the point. The empty expanse is thematically nice but not important to the enjoyment.
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    > It's not for visual thinkers. As a MUD vet - and recognizing how much MMORPG dynamics borrow back from MUDs - I think it's more about the differences in mechanics and social dynamics than "visual thinking". The interface and interactions are about as abstract and obtuse, and the focus on player-driven events in real time over scripted storylines is similar. But for me, there are MUDs that are more creative and proactive. Between re-rolling and no-PK MUDs, failure/death often has few or no stakes early in MUDs. Remorts recycle the player base, so on older active servers there experienced players are often in new-character zones. Building mechanics are more open-ended but also not mandatory for success. EVE always plays more linear and reactive. There are and have been MUDs like that, but it's not monolithic - they aren't the only "non-visual" type of MUD. EVE guides players into corps and other orgs, which by design leads to hierarchical play. A new capsuleer is about even with or less than an NPC to most EVE players. There are few incentives to meaningfully help new players or new characters, outside of making them more useful laborers for your corp. Investing time, effort, and optionally money eventually rewards you as a player, but until then you accomplish and contribute very little. So I'd say EVE is more for players who want to play the proverbial long game, with winners and losers, and stakes of economy and influence above all others. That's not something that can be pinned on the visuals or the spreadsheet UI. In that sense it's honestly more like Football Manager but with real people as the footballers that get shuffled around and appeased in order to help you win.
Ankaios 4y ago
Ultima Online was similar in a lot of ways. They're also similar in that I actively avoided thinking about them to avoid getting addicted. :)

awelxtr 4y ago

Yup, being an enormous time sink it's one of my major gripes with the game. I guess it is also what makes it one of the most hardcore games in existence... Right next to OGame

coenhyde 4y ago
I've never played EVE Online, but that is a not because I don't want to. It's basically the game I dreamed about as a kid. And I know if I play, I will want to win, but you can't win, you can only dominate; by investing lots and lots of time. People say I'm not missing much because it's a spreadsheet in space. Unfortunately that sounds right up my alley. I love games where I can find tiny optimizations and compound them into an unchallengeable force. But if I have the time to build a space empire, I have the time to build a new startup empire in real life, which I don't.
- roganartu 4y ago
  > I will want to win, but you can't win, you can only dominate It is common for EVE players to refer to quitting as "winning EVE". I won EVE around 7 years ago after falling 800-hours-in-6-months deep into the optimisation black hole you describe and realising it was immensely fun but unsustainable.
- imtringued 4y ago
  >I have the time to build a new startup empire in real life, which I don't. Real life doesn't work that way, you will first have to work 20 years under the previous emperor.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago

Seems to me it's mostly empty space with menus on top. To me, the essence of video games is that play takes place in an interesting space, where terrain matters and a variety of things occupy it. It would be trivial to recreate the EVE experience in literally any MMO by just having permadeath. And then most other MMOs would be better than EVE because they actually have worlds with stuff in them. Or maybe they don't and it's just a thin facade, in which case I simply recommend playing better games. Am I missing something?

GauntletWizard 4y ago
You're not wrong, you're just not the target audience. It's not for visual thinkers. Eve Online is a spreadsheet simulator in so many ways, but for the people who enjoy those spreadsheets, whether they be market buy/sell prices or times of day that idiots in blinged out ratting ships are playing, that's what keeps them going. The space theme is pretty, but not really the point. The harshness of the universe is the point. The empty expanse is thematically nice but not important to the enjoyment.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  > It's not for visual thinkers. As a MUD vet - and recognizing how much MMORPG dynamics borrow back from MUDs - I think it's more about the differences in mechanics and social dynamics than "visual thinking". The interface and interactions are about as abstract and obtuse, and the focus on player-driven events in real time over scripted storylines is similar. But for me, there are MUDs that are more creative and proactive. Between re-rolling and no-PK MUDs, failure/death often has few or no stakes early in MUDs. Remorts recycle the player base, so on older active servers there experienced players are often in new-character zones. Building mechanics are more open-ended but also not mandatory for success. EVE always plays more linear and reactive. There are and have been MUDs like that, but it's not monolithic - they aren't the only "non-visual" type of MUD. EVE guides players into corps and other orgs, which by design leads to hierarchical play. A new capsuleer is about even with or less than an NPC to most EVE players. There are few incentives to meaningfully help new players or new characters, outside of making them more useful laborers for your corp. Investing time, effort, and optionally money eventually rewards you as a player, but until then you accomplish and contribute very little. So I'd say EVE is more for players who want to play the proverbial long game, with winners and losers, and stakes of economy and influence above all others. That's not something that can be pinned on the visuals or the spreadsheet UI. In that sense it's honestly more like Football Manager but with real people as the footballers that get shuffled around and appeased in order to help you win.

Ankaios 4y ago

Ultima Online was similar in a lot of ways. They're also similar in that I actively avoided thinking about them to avoid getting addicted. :)