4 ms·

He's admitted to cheating at 12 years old and at 16 years old (just 3 years ago)

by shawabawa3 4y ago

neaden 4y ago
Right but the claim he made is at 16 he cheated only in no-stakes games, not for prize money.
- frumper 4y ago
  You realize you're putting your trust in the word of someone admitting they cheated. It only goes downhill from there.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    No, just trying to put into perspective that people are morons and witch hunts are not fun for anyone. He's just a kid, he made a mistake.
- landryraccoon 4y ago
  That argument doesn’t make sense to me. If someone has acknowledged that they will cheat when there are NO stakes, why does that make it less likely they will cheat if something is on the line? If anything someone who is already known to cheat “just because” is even more likely to cheat when there is something to gain.
  - neaden 4y ago
    The claim in the original comment that I replied to was that Hans had admitted to cheating in "real, official, prize money online tournaments", which was when he was 12. As for cheating and stakes I think it all depends. His claim is he cheated when he was 16 to boost his rating so he could player higher level opponents on stream and boost his career. If you accept that claim it would make sense that he rationalized it that he was just cheating to get to his "true" Elo and stopped cheating once he got there. Now Chess.Com seems to believe that he cheated beyond that but they haven't specified more at this point.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      How can a game be no-stakes and also rating-boosting? It sounds like he's saying he cheated to get to where he was going faster, but that he would have gotten there eventually so it's fine. It would be like Armstrong saying he only cheated during trials and training.
      - neaden 4y ago
        Well steroids and doping are different because they effect your body but sure, if Armstrong had cheated during trials with something like a small motor but not during the actual tour it would have tarnished his legacy but I don't think it would have ruined it like his cheating did.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
MichaelCollins 4y ago
Yes, the maturity jump from 16 to 19 is marginal at best. If you generalize from crime statistics, a 19 year old is actually more likely to be dishonest than a 16 year old. Criminality peaks in the late teens and drops in the early 20s. https://pinkerton.com/our-insights/blog/age-crime-curve https://pinkerton.com/our-insights/blog/age-crime-curve (Yes yes I know, Pinkerton are evil. they have the best plot of this correlation I could find. The crime-age correlation is the strongest that exists in the entire field of criminology.)
- bombcar 4y ago
  I wonder if you plotted "risk/reward" behavior during that same time if you'd get a similar curve, just going to show that adolescents are bad at risk/reward calculations.
chongli 4y ago
And the worst part is that Chess.com released a statement saying they've suspended Niemann's account because they have evidence that his cheating was not limited to these two instances. They've invited him to look at the evidence and respond privately to their concerns but it is not publicly known if he has done so.
kjerkegor 4y ago
Just 3 years ago in that age is a lot. Also he said that he didn't cheat in prize money tournaments or tournaments at all at 16, he cheated because he wanted to boost his rating and play better players, not saying that is okay. I don't know if he cheated against Magnus or not, but to say that he cheated because something he did at twelve is stupid. Magnus saying that Hans wasn't tense and concentrated is far more important than this other stuff.
- danieljacksonno 4y ago
  He only (recently) admitted to those two cases because he was publicly outed. It seems extremely unlikely that the only two times he was caught was also the only two times he cheated. I think it's very probable he has cheated dozens or hundreds of times and not been caught or not been publicly outed for it.
boole1854 4y ago
It is relevant to remember that he "admitted" to cheating on two different occasions only after he was caught and banned for doing so. He did not voluntarily come forward and confess of his own volition.
- bombcar 4y ago
  This is the biggest suspicious fact. That he only cheated two times and was caught both times is a bit hard to believe.
onemoresoop 4y ago
> He's admitted to cheating at 12 years old and at 16 years old (just 3 years ago) I see the pattern forming. He clearly has improved his play since but he could also have improved the cheating technique, as others pointed out, just needing a hint or two in the most decisive moments of the game. Has he not cheated against Magnus it's a pity that he got accused with no proofs.

He's admitted to cheating at 12 years old and at 16 years old (just 3 years ago)

neaden 4y ago

Right but the claim he made is at 16 he cheated only in no-stakes games, not for prize money.

frumper 4y ago
You realize you're putting your trust in the word of someone admitting they cheated. It only goes downhill from there.
- roflyear 4y ago
  No, just trying to put into perspective that people are morons and witch hunts are not fun for anyone. He's just a kid, he made a mistake.
landryraccoon 4y ago
That argument doesn’t make sense to me. If someone has acknowledged that they will cheat when there are NO stakes, why does that make it less likely they will cheat if something is on the line? If anything someone who is already known to cheat “just because” is even more likely to cheat when there is something to gain.
- neaden 4y ago
  The claim in the original comment that I replied to was that Hans had admitted to cheating in "real, official, prize money online tournaments", which was when he was 12. As for cheating and stakes I think it all depends. His claim is he cheated when he was 16 to boost his rating so he could player higher level opponents on stream and boost his career. If you accept that claim it would make sense that he rationalized it that he was just cheating to get to his "true" Elo and stopped cheating once he got there. Now Chess.Com seems to believe that he cheated beyond that but they haven't specified more at this point.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    How can a game be no-stakes and also rating-boosting? It sounds like he's saying he cheated to get to where he was going faster, but that he would have gotten there eventually so it's fine. It would be like Armstrong saying he only cheated during trials and training.
    - neaden 4y ago
      Well steroids and doping are different because they effect your body but sure, if Armstrong had cheated during trials with something like a small motor but not during the actual tour it would have tarnished his legacy but I don't think it would have ruined it like his cheating did.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

MichaelCollins 4y ago

Yes, the maturity jump from 16 to 19 is marginal at best. If you generalize from crime statistics, a 19 year old is actually more likely to be dishonest than a 16 year old. Criminality peaks in the late teens and drops in the early 20s. https://pinkerton.com/our-insights/blog/age-crime-curve https://pinkerton.com/our-insights/blog/age-crime-curve (Yes yes I know, Pinkerton are evil. they have the best plot of this correlation I could find. The crime-age correlation is the strongest that exists in the entire field of criminology.)

bombcar 4y ago
I wonder if you plotted "risk/reward" behavior during that same time if you'd get a similar curve, just going to show that adolescents are bad at risk/reward calculations.

chongli 4y ago

And the worst part is that Chess.com released a statement saying they've suspended Niemann's account because they have evidence that his cheating was not limited to these two instances. They've invited him to look at the evidence and respond privately to their concerns but it is not publicly known if he has done so.

kjerkegor 4y ago

Just 3 years ago in that age is a lot. Also he said that he didn't cheat in prize money tournaments or tournaments at all at 16, he cheated because he wanted to boost his rating and play better players, not saying that is okay. I don't know if he cheated against Magnus or not, but to say that he cheated because something he did at twelve is stupid. Magnus saying that Hans wasn't tense and concentrated is far more important than this other stuff.

danieljacksonno 4y ago
He only (recently) admitted to those two cases because he was publicly outed. It seems extremely unlikely that the only two times he was caught was also the only two times he cheated. I think it's very probable he has cheated dozens or hundreds of times and not been caught or not been publicly outed for it.

boole1854 4y ago

It is relevant to remember that he "admitted" to cheating on two different occasions only after he was caught and banned for doing so. He did not voluntarily come forward and confess of his own volition.

bombcar 4y ago
This is the biggest suspicious fact. That he only cheated two times and was caught both times is a bit hard to believe.

onemoresoop 4y ago

> He's admitted to cheating at 12 years old and at 16 years old (just 3 years ago) I see the pattern forming. He clearly has improved his play since but he could also have improved the cheating technique, as others pointed out, just needing a hint or two in the most decisive moments of the game. Has he not cheated against Magnus it's a pity that he got accused with no proofs.