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I don't think culling games/apps based on age is the right approach to improving discoverability. I don't see Nintendo removing old Switch games from the eShop

I don't think culling games/apps based on age is the right approach to improving discoverability. I don't see Nintendo removing old Switch games from the eShop. I don't see Apple Music removing the Beatles because they haven't updated recently. My recommendation, which Apple's (obnoxious) ad business would never accept, would be to 1. Remove the obnoxious and generally useless ads which eat up the top half of the first page of app search on the iPhone. 2. Improve app search with more options and a fast, responsive UI. Also they might consider allowing you to consider ratings from other sources such as critical reviews vs. user reviews (a la metacritic.) 3. Better human curation with more categories. This is the same approach that Apple Music takes and it seems to work well. Games should have Artist/Studio/Developer pages as well as Essentials lists to facilitate discovery. Same with genre/category essentials, which have a rotating list that can be saved/bookmarked.

II2II 4y ago
The missing point is that they are culling apps based upon age and downloads. I think this is a reasonable criteria if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps. Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. The real problem is that developers have no choice except to offer their app through Apple's store. There is no room for the developer to offer their labour of love or niche product in a storefront that better serves their needs, or even from their own website.
- musicale 4y ago
  > The real problem is that developers have no choice except to offer their app through Apple's store How is this different from other walled garden game systems/game stores like Nintendo's eShop? Yet they seem to keep older games and apps, even niche titles for a limited audience (such as music production apps or BASIC programming apps) which I greatly appreciate. I would agree that discoverability isn't great on the eShop, but there are dozens of enthusiast web sites which are pretty good for game discovery (also aggregators like metacritic.) And, as I noted, I think Apple already has a good approach which they're using with Apple Music - better human curation including category/genre/time period/artist/etc. playlists. Podcasts/radio shows also help. Many games (at least ones that aren't in the "live service" category) are more akin to movies, music, or books than to some sort of perishable produce, so a curation approach that balances older content with new content makes sense.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    It depends on how you view your phone. Is it a single use appliance? Or is it a general use computer?
    - judge2020 4y ago
      Does that really matter? Would Microsoft making a web browser for Xbox[0] make it more general purpose, given you can now bank on it? 0: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console/use-microsoft-edge-on-xbox https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console...
      - fuzzfactor 4y ago
        I wouldn't bank on it.
  - II2II 4y ago
    Consoles are different because they have a limited shelf life. For example, I dug out my PS3 the other day and took a peek at their eshop. The most recent title was three years old. It also sounds like they're going to shut down the PS3 eshop, effectively ending the sale of old games anyhow. Something similar appears to be true for Nintendo. I pulled up their eshop on my 3DS and they have a message saying that it will be impossible to add funds to an account after March 20223. Presumably that means sales will end. As for other media, brick and mortar retailers were always selective about what they offered. I suspect that we will see something similar happen with their digital variants in the coming years. I also suspect that it will be sales numbers, not human curation, that will be the basis of their decisions.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  > if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps “Make space”? This isn’t a shelf. There’s always enough space for digital items.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    So do you want to sift through a bunch of apps that don't work on the current version of the operating system or are otherwise significantly dated? Even in a less wall gardened environment, I'm mostly not interested in running 10 year old applications unless they're something fairly simple that really does do everything required for the purpose and still runs reliably. In any case, as a user, I probably figure that if an app hasn't been updated in five years, it may or may not work and I'll probably at least subconsciously resent the store's owner a bit for clogging up the store with old stuff.
    - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
      >I'm mostly not interested in running 10 year old applications unless they're something fairly simple that really does do everything required for the purpose and still runs reliably. The 10 year old version of AutoCAD still runs, and you can use it today to do a ton of high-value CAD work. Thanks to Microsoft for not arbitrarily blocking it from running.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Yes. But that’s a case of having an old version of a program that you know still runs on a given platform. That’s rather different from looking for a CAD program and deciding to take one that hasn’t been updated for ten years for a spin.
        trap_goes_hot 4y ago
        Backwards compatibility benefits current, and future users. I agree that "hasn't been updated" is a concern, but you can also look for "hasn't needed to be updated". If you can obtain a legal copy of 10 year old software, you can use it for the fraction of the cost of the new version.
- r00fus 4y ago
  Virtual space only makes sense in terms of floorspace. If you want to access a backroom special-order item (virtually unlimited space here), you should be able to get it by searching for a specific item (or URL). Removing apps based on downloads or lack of updates is troubling.
- mcherm 4y ago
  > Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. I don't hear independent developers griping that Apple is failing to advertise their apps and bring those apps to the attention of iPhone users. Instead, I hear independent developers griping that Apple is preventing their apps from being run on iPhones. Therefore, I completely disagree. This is purely a matter of data storage space (cheap and nigh infinite), not a matter of limited attention.
  - newtritious 4y ago
    I hear the opposite of you. There are very few serious apps whose code Apple is preventing from being run. There are huge numbers of good apps on the store that don’t get visibility.
- gernb 4y ago
  > Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. By that argument they should also get rid of most old music, old books, old movies.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > I think this is a reasonable criteria if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps I do not. Do you think shovelware author x has any issues pushing a new garbage update? I want the app store to be full of high quality stuff, not recent.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    You ignored the part where they also use downloads. If a high-quality app has no downloads, is it useful?
- sriku 4y ago
  All developers pay an annual tax to Apple, which should cover storage and discoverability at least right?
scarface74 4y ago
APIs change, hardware changes, the comparison is relatively silly.
- meltedcapacitor 4y ago
  Rectangle with capacitive screen is just that. Well designed apps should be robust to improved screen resolution, faster processors or network connectivity.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Older apps don’t properly fit with the curved corners and notch.
    - kps 4y ago
      The 2022 SE3 has the same 750×1334 rectangle as the 2014 iPhone 6.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        The 2018 iPhone X does not.
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Android vendors were able to make it work. Besides, isn’t this the company that allowed you to install iPhone apps on iPads and blow the UI up to 2x size?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Android was always written with the expectation that it would run on a diverse set of hardware. You could run iPhone 4 apps on iPhone 5 and beyond. But they looked horrible.
        Tijdreiziger 4y ago
anothernewdude 4y ago
Apple should just have fewer apps. I don't see why developers should cater to their customers. They buy less and require more support. They are the worst segment to support.
- newtritious 4y ago
  You’re just wrong. The reason developers support iOS is that iOS users buy more apps.
- NavinF 4y ago
  Are you serious? There's way more revenue to be made on iOS. A lot of Android users spend $0/yr on paid apps.
  - metadat 4y ago
    > A lot of Android users spend $0/yr on paid apps. As do a lot of iOS users. I think the stat you are looking for is that, on average, iPhone users purchase more apps. Don't forget to consider Android's massive installed user base in the calculation. Even if Droid users convert to paid at 1/4 the rate of iOS, you can make it up in sheer bulk.
sriku 4y ago
> I don't see Apple Music removing the Beatles because they haven't updated recently. I wish I could upvote you for that multiple times!
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  They would ask the Beatles copyright owners to update their format if they posted an old 8 track or vinyl in to the music store though, right? Audio formats change, just at a more glacial pace than software dependencies. There is remastering and all that too.
  - noobermin 4y ago
    An 8 track is many decades old. TFA refers to an app that hasn't been updated in three (3) years.
- guessbest 4y ago
  It has probably been remastered, which is about the same as recompiling
CharlesW 4y ago
> I don't see Nintendo removing old Switch games from the eShop. The difference is that Nintendo shops have a limited shelf life, while App Store is forever(-ish). Nintendo will be shutting down the Wii U and 3DS eShops in 2023. 2023 is 6 years after Wii U was discontinued. Since the platform was frozen in time in 2017, there's no point to game updates.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  eShop games still end up sticking around a lot longer, however. The first 3DS eShop games came out in 2012.
scarface74 4y ago
Nintendo updated hardware every five to seven years and don’t old eShop apps run within an emulator?

II2II 4y ago

The missing point is that they are culling apps based upon age and downloads. I think this is a reasonable criteria if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps. Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. The real problem is that developers have no choice except to offer their app through Apple's store. There is no room for the developer to offer their labour of love or niche product in a storefront that better serves their needs, or even from their own website.

musicale 4y ago
> The real problem is that developers have no choice except to offer their app through Apple's store How is this different from other walled garden game systems/game stores like Nintendo's eShop? Yet they seem to keep older games and apps, even niche titles for a limited audience (such as music production apps or BASIC programming apps) which I greatly appreciate. I would agree that discoverability isn't great on the eShop, but there are dozens of enthusiast web sites which are pretty good for game discovery (also aggregators like metacritic.) And, as I noted, I think Apple already has a good approach which they're using with Apple Music - better human curation including category/genre/time period/artist/etc. playlists. Podcasts/radio shows also help. Many games (at least ones that aren't in the "live service" category) are more akin to movies, music, or books than to some sort of perishable produce, so a curation approach that balances older content with new content makes sense.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  It depends on how you view your phone. Is it a single use appliance? Or is it a general use computer?
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Does that really matter? Would Microsoft making a web browser for Xbox[0] make it more general purpose, given you can now bank on it? 0: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console/use-microsoft-edge-on-xbox https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console...
    - fuzzfactor 4y ago
      I wouldn't bank on it.
- II2II 4y ago
  Consoles are different because they have a limited shelf life. For example, I dug out my PS3 the other day and took a peek at their eshop. The most recent title was three years old. It also sounds like they're going to shut down the PS3 eshop, effectively ending the sale of old games anyhow. Something similar appears to be true for Nintendo. I pulled up their eshop on my 3DS and they have a message saying that it will be impossible to add funds to an account after March 20223. Presumably that means sales will end. As for other media, brick and mortar retailers were always selective about what they offered. I suspect that we will see something similar happen with their digital variants in the coming years. I also suspect that it will be sales numbers, not human curation, that will be the basis of their decisions.
jonathankoren 4y ago
> if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps “Make space”? This isn’t a shelf. There’s always enough space for digital items.
- ghaff 4y ago
  So do you want to sift through a bunch of apps that don't work on the current version of the operating system or are otherwise significantly dated? Even in a less wall gardened environment, I'm mostly not interested in running 10 year old applications unless they're something fairly simple that really does do everything required for the purpose and still runs reliably. In any case, as a user, I probably figure that if an app hasn't been updated in five years, it may or may not work and I'll probably at least subconsciously resent the store's owner a bit for clogging up the store with old stuff.
  - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
    >I'm mostly not interested in running 10 year old applications unless they're something fairly simple that really does do everything required for the purpose and still runs reliably. The 10 year old version of AutoCAD still runs, and you can use it today to do a ton of high-value CAD work. Thanks to Microsoft for not arbitrarily blocking it from running.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Yes. But that’s a case of having an old version of a program that you know still runs on a given platform. That’s rather different from looking for a CAD program and deciding to take one that hasn’t been updated for ten years for a spin.
      - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
        Backwards compatibility benefits current, and future users. I agree that "hasn't been updated" is a concern, but you can also look for "hasn't needed to be updated". If you can obtain a legal copy of 10 year old software, you can use it for the fraction of the cost of the new version.
r00fus 4y ago
Virtual space only makes sense in terms of floorspace. If you want to access a backroom special-order item (virtually unlimited space here), you should be able to get it by searching for a specific item (or URL). Removing apps based on downloads or lack of updates is troubling.
mcherm 4y ago
> Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. I don't hear independent developers griping that Apple is failing to advertise their apps and bring those apps to the attention of iPhone users. Instead, I hear independent developers griping that Apple is preventing their apps from being run on iPhones. Therefore, I completely disagree. This is purely a matter of data storage space (cheap and nigh infinite), not a matter of limited attention.
- newtritious 4y ago
  I hear the opposite of you. There are very few serious apps whose code Apple is preventing from being run. There are huge numbers of good apps on the store that don’t get visibility.
gernb 4y ago
> Yes, space is an issue if you think of it in terms of the customer's attention span. By that argument they should also get rid of most old music, old books, old movies.
Aeolun 4y ago
> I think this is a reasonable criteria if Apple is trying to make space for popular and potentially upcoming apps I do not. Do you think shovelware author x has any issues pushing a new garbage update? I want the app store to be full of high quality stuff, not recent.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  You ignored the part where they also use downloads. If a high-quality app has no downloads, is it useful?
sriku 4y ago
All developers pay an annual tax to Apple, which should cover storage and discoverability at least right?

scarface74 4y ago

APIs change, hardware changes, the comparison is relatively silly.

meltedcapacitor 4y ago
Rectangle with capacitive screen is just that. Well designed apps should be robust to improved screen resolution, faster processors or network connectivity.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Older apps don’t properly fit with the curved corners and notch.
  - kps 4y ago
    The 2022 SE3 has the same 750×1334 rectangle as the 2014 iPhone 6.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      The 2018 iPhone X does not.
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Android vendors were able to make it work. Besides, isn’t this the company that allowed you to install iPhone apps on iPads and blow the UI up to 2x size?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Android was always written with the expectation that it would run on a diverse set of hardware. You could run iPhone 4 apps on iPhone 5 and beyond. But they looked horrible.
      - Tijdreiziger 4y ago

anothernewdude 4y ago

Apple should just have fewer apps. I don't see why developers should cater to their customers. They buy less and require more support. They are the worst segment to support.

newtritious 4y ago
You’re just wrong. The reason developers support iOS is that iOS users buy more apps.
NavinF 4y ago
Are you serious? There's way more revenue to be made on iOS. A lot of Android users spend $0/yr on paid apps.
- metadat 4y ago
  > A lot of Android users spend $0/yr on paid apps. As do a lot of iOS users. I think the stat you are looking for is that, on average, iPhone users purchase more apps. Don't forget to consider Android's massive installed user base in the calculation. Even if Droid users convert to paid at 1/4 the rate of iOS, you can make it up in sheer bulk.

sriku 4y ago

> I don't see Apple Music removing the Beatles because they haven't updated recently. I wish I could upvote you for that multiple times!

quickthrower2 4y ago
They would ask the Beatles copyright owners to update their format if they posted an old 8 track or vinyl in to the music store though, right? Audio formats change, just at a more glacial pace than software dependencies. There is remastering and all that too.
- noobermin 4y ago
  An 8 track is many decades old. TFA refers to an app that hasn't been updated in three (3) years.
guessbest 4y ago
It has probably been remastered, which is about the same as recompiling

CharlesW 4y ago

> I don't see Nintendo removing old Switch games from the eShop. The difference is that Nintendo shops have a limited shelf life, while App Store is forever(-ish). Nintendo will be shutting down the Wii U and 3DS eShops in 2023. 2023 is 6 years after Wii U was discontinued. Since the platform was frozen in time in 2017, there's no point to game updates.

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
eShop games still end up sticking around a lot longer, however. The first 3DS eShop games came out in 2012.

scarface74 4y ago

Nintendo updated hardware every five to seven years and don’t old eShop apps run within an emulator?