4 ms·

I interviewed at a startup once in Canada. They offered 40K per year (Canadian) and asked late working hours right in the interview process. No thanks...

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
There are McDonalds in the US that offer 40k (USD) to entry-level, no-experience workers. With such an insulting salary proposal as you experienced, it's amazing that Canada has any startups at all.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  It's probably not a coincidence that I've met many very good Canadian engineers in the US
- somerandomqaguy 4y ago
  There were two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally. I know of more with rough salaries $40,000 and below. Even me; when I was in QA, my salary was $52,000 for 9 years of experience. And that was after a raise. Like it or not, there's people willing to take those positions. No where near as many as Canadian companies would like, but they are there.
  - vic-traill 4y ago
    > two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally When was this? Note that $11/hr CAD is below the current minimum wage of every Canadian province and territory as of June 1 2022 [0] As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ? [0] https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/minimum-wage-by-province/ https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/minimum-...
    - somerandomqaguy 4y ago
      > When was this? About 10 years ago, at the time the minimum wage was around $9/hr to $10/hr or so. Adjusted for inflation it'd be around $13.78 in today's money. > As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ? They were freshly graduated, with low cost of living at that time. But like many new graduates, were having difficulty getting that first job, which caused a measure of desperation. Throw in the fact that the problem domain we were working on at the time was genuinely interesting, and it's not too difficult to convince yourself that kind of money isn't so bad. At least for a while.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    If they're that talented, they should learn how to negotiate for themselves and realize there are much better options. Right now they're just being taken advantage of, making more money for someone else.
mmastrac 4y ago
That sounds like Neo Financial, hah.
yrgulation 4y ago
Few years before the pandemic i researched moving to canada from the uk. I was shocked at how low tech pay was. Basically it was lower than in some east european countries for my level of experience. The way i see it, canada will follow the path denmark went after the 2008 crash. The software tech sector all but vanished and has not recovered since.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  While it's hardly as dynamic as the U.S., Denmark seems to be doing just fine in the tech space. It's fair to say that a lot of tech talent is in larger organisations rather than startups. Denmark is a very sticky place to live (the quality of life is amazing, particularly for families), so people are reluctant to leave even if wages are not excellent. That said, wages are very good for Europe (there is only one or two countries where I could earn more). All in all I see plenty of tech talent, it's just that, internationally, tech talent doesn't see Denmark as an obvious choice to which to relocate. Nine times out of 10, that's the U.S.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I left denmark because tech wages were quite low compared to the uk after _all_ taxes have been factored in. The tech job market was basically non existent around 13 years ago. Still seems small upon a quick check as of today. Schools and universities are free but nowhere near the quality the uk offers. Public healthcare is ok but you still need to queue up or go private. It is a cool stable country, i like it, and danes are super friendly, but tech is dead.
    - Gareth321 4y ago
      The U.K. is certainly not a bad place to end up. Tech wages are higher in Denmark (https://codesubmit.io/blog/software-engineer-salary-by-country/ https://codesubmit.io/blog/software-engineer-salary-by-count...) but you're right: the taxes are also higher. I still strongly disagree with the notion that tech is dead in Denmark. Me and hundreds of colleagues are all very happy with the tech wages in our company. I mean, Denmark is a much smaller country than the U.K., so in an absolute sense, there are certainly more tech opportunities in a country with 10x as many people.
flippinburgers 4y ago
Sounds like Japan.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

There are McDonalds in the US that offer 40k (USD) to entry-level, no-experience workers. With such an insulting salary proposal as you experienced, it's amazing that Canada has any startups at all.

chaostheory 4y ago
It's probably not a coincidence that I've met many very good Canadian engineers in the US
somerandomqaguy 4y ago
There were two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally. I know of more with rough salaries $40,000 and below. Even me; when I was in QA, my salary was $52,000 for 9 years of experience. And that was after a raise. Like it or not, there's people willing to take those positions. No where near as many as Canadian companies would like, but they are there.
- vic-traill 4y ago
  > two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally When was this? Note that $11/hr CAD is below the current minimum wage of every Canadian province and territory as of June 1 2022 [0] As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ? [0] https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/minimum-wage-by-province/ https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/minimum-...
  - somerandomqaguy 4y ago
    > When was this? About 10 years ago, at the time the minimum wage was around $9/hr to $10/hr or so. Adjusted for inflation it'd be around $13.78 in today's money. > As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ? They were freshly graduated, with low cost of living at that time. But like many new graduates, were having difficulty getting that first job, which caused a measure of desperation. Throw in the fact that the problem domain we were working on at the time was genuinely interesting, and it's not too difficult to convince yourself that kind of money isn't so bad. At least for a while.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  If they're that talented, they should learn how to negotiate for themselves and realize there are much better options. Right now they're just being taken advantage of, making more money for someone else.

mmastrac 4y ago

That sounds like Neo Financial, hah.

yrgulation 4y ago

Few years before the pandemic i researched moving to canada from the uk. I was shocked at how low tech pay was. Basically it was lower than in some east european countries for my level of experience. The way i see it, canada will follow the path denmark went after the 2008 crash. The software tech sector all but vanished and has not recovered since.

Gareth321 4y ago
While it's hardly as dynamic as the U.S., Denmark seems to be doing just fine in the tech space. It's fair to say that a lot of tech talent is in larger organisations rather than startups. Denmark is a very sticky place to live (the quality of life is amazing, particularly for families), so people are reluctant to leave even if wages are not excellent. That said, wages are very good for Europe (there is only one or two countries where I could earn more). All in all I see plenty of tech talent, it's just that, internationally, tech talent doesn't see Denmark as an obvious choice to which to relocate. Nine times out of 10, that's the U.S.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  I left denmark because tech wages were quite low compared to the uk after _all_ taxes have been factored in. The tech job market was basically non existent around 13 years ago. Still seems small upon a quick check as of today. Schools and universities are free but nowhere near the quality the uk offers. Public healthcare is ok but you still need to queue up or go private. It is a cool stable country, i like it, and danes are super friendly, but tech is dead.
  - Gareth321 4y ago
    The U.K. is certainly not a bad place to end up. Tech wages are higher in Denmark (https://codesubmit.io/blog/software-engineer-salary-by-country/ https://codesubmit.io/blog/software-engineer-salary-by-count...) but you're right: the taxes are also higher. I still strongly disagree with the notion that tech is dead in Denmark. Me and hundreds of colleagues are all very happy with the tech wages in our company. I mean, Denmark is a much smaller country than the U.K., so in an absolute sense, there are certainly more tech opportunities in a country with 10x as many people.

flippinburgers 4y ago

Sounds like Japan.