4 ms·

You think that “hookup culture” is the reason for the “West’s” low birthrates? This is a well-studied topic and I haven’t heard anyone else making that claim…

yucky 4y ago
Why wouldn't it be related? Women would rather not have kids with random hookups so if they're all having random hookups with everyone on Tinder/Bumble/Whatever then when exactly would they be having kids? Of course it's related. Also, look at the levels of estrogen-related compounds in our drinking water due to all of the birth control and think of what effect that might have on male fertility, which we know is the lowest in recorded history...
- staticman2 4y ago
  "Contrary to popular belief, birth control pills account for less than 1 percent of the estrogens found in the nation's drinking water" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.h... As for "hookup culture" that sounds like something largely made up by conservative pundents and you are describing it as a real thing.
  - rhodorhoades 4y ago
    Wtf?… this is the most alarming statistic I’ve ever heard. Why is their estrogen in our drinking water, why does birth control put estrogen in our drinking water and where the fuck is the other 99% coming from?
  - yucky 4y ago
    >Source: American Chemical Society Yikes. Meanwhile, nobody has been able to replicate those results in the 10+ years since then, I wonder why. >As for "hookup culture" that sounds like something largely made up by conservative pundents and you are describing it as a real thing. Many liberals don't think glorifying hedonism is a good thing. I guess I'm open to hear the argument though, so what is the advantage for society to promote hook-up culture? What good comes from that vs the alternative?
    - staticman2 4y ago
      I noticed you just claimed nobody could replicate the results but provided no evidence for your claim that either 1) estrogen in the water is in unhealthy levels due to birth control or 2) nobody could replicate the results. I think it's pretty clear you don't care about scientific evidence but think women having consensual, nonreproductive sex is icky, so very much want it to be true that birth control is poison, and don't really care about the truth level of what you are posting as long as it feels true. As for your other point, I already said there's no such thing as hookup culture, that's just an outlandish stereotype you want to box people into.
      - yucky 4y ago
        >I already said there's no such thing as hookup culture lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture I said I was open to hearing the advantages of promoting hedonism in society. And that applies to men or women. What are they?
        staticman2 4y ago
        Consentual sex is not hedonism. I don't know how to explain to you that the meaning of life isn't to make babies, and that it's morally wrong to optimize society for making babies by treating women as chattel, banning birth control, censoring art work, screaming all day about birth control being poison, or whatever it is you think you are fighting for.
        yucky 4y ago
        >Consentual sex is not hedonism. Agreed 100%. Consensual sex is awesome (the only good kind!), but we're talking about hook-up culture specifically though. And I never said anything about banning birth control, there are many different types of birth control. The ones that add estrogen to our water supply are problematic though.[0] As an aside, what do you think is causing the massive drop in fertility and semen counts in western men?[1] It's one thing to handwave away things you don't like, but we know semen counts have never been this low, so why do you think that is? [0] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26454754/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26454754/ [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p...
- anemoiac 4y ago
  To begin with, you haven't even defined "hookup culture," much less demonstrated that its prevalence is significant enough to influence birth rates or, further, proven that its influence on birth rates would be negative in the first place. That said, why assume a nebulous concept like "hookup culture" is causing declining birth rates when a simple google search will reveal plenty of well-studied factors with demonstrated influence on fertility (not to mention far more cultural universality). For reference, some examples include: increased educational attainment among women, increased labor-force participation among women, increased urbanization, increased cost-of-living
  - yucky 4y ago
    >To begin with, you haven't even defined "hookup culture" It's pretty well defined and has been for some time. The link was posted in the thread, but here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture.
    - anemoiac 4y ago
      As a young-er person in the West, I'm well aware of the term's general meaning. The linked article you provide fails to define it in any way that would be empirically meaningful with regard to the study of birth rates. You haven't given us any reason to suspect that American college students, or their European peers, engaging in casual sex (the focus of the linked article) has any impact on birth rates. Based on the above, as well as your lack of engagement with any of the fertility-related factors I provided, I'm assuming you're more interested in voicing some sort of cultural critique than discussing actual drivers behind trends in birth rates.

yucky 4y ago

Why wouldn't it be related? Women would rather not have kids with random hookups so if they're all having random hookups with everyone on Tinder/Bumble/Whatever then when exactly would they be having kids? Of course it's related. Also, look at the levels of estrogen-related compounds in our drinking water due to all of the birth control and think of what effect that might have on male fertility, which we know is the lowest in recorded history...

staticman2 4y ago
"Contrary to popular belief, birth control pills account for less than 1 percent of the estrogens found in the nation's drinking water" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.h... As for "hookup culture" that sounds like something largely made up by conservative pundents and you are describing it as a real thing.
- rhodorhoades 4y ago
  Wtf?… this is the most alarming statistic I’ve ever heard. Why is their estrogen in our drinking water, why does birth control put estrogen in our drinking water and where the fuck is the other 99% coming from?
- yucky 4y ago
  >Source: American Chemical Society Yikes. Meanwhile, nobody has been able to replicate those results in the 10+ years since then, I wonder why. >As for "hookup culture" that sounds like something largely made up by conservative pundents and you are describing it as a real thing. Many liberals don't think glorifying hedonism is a good thing. I guess I'm open to hear the argument though, so what is the advantage for society to promote hook-up culture? What good comes from that vs the alternative?
  - staticman2 4y ago
    I noticed you just claimed nobody could replicate the results but provided no evidence for your claim that either 1) estrogen in the water is in unhealthy levels due to birth control or 2) nobody could replicate the results. I think it's pretty clear you don't care about scientific evidence but think women having consensual, nonreproductive sex is icky, so very much want it to be true that birth control is poison, and don't really care about the truth level of what you are posting as long as it feels true. As for your other point, I already said there's no such thing as hookup culture, that's just an outlandish stereotype you want to box people into.
    - yucky 4y ago
      >I already said there's no such thing as hookup culture lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture I said I was open to hearing the advantages of promoting hedonism in society. And that applies to men or women. What are they?
      - staticman2 4y ago
        Consentual sex is not hedonism. I don't know how to explain to you that the meaning of life isn't to make babies, and that it's morally wrong to optimize society for making babies by treating women as chattel, banning birth control, censoring art work, screaming all day about birth control being poison, or whatever it is you think you are fighting for.
        yucky 4y ago
        >Consentual sex is not hedonism. Agreed 100%. Consensual sex is awesome (the only good kind!), but we're talking about hook-up culture specifically though. And I never said anything about banning birth control, there are many different types of birth control. The ones that add estrogen to our water supply are problematic though.[0] As an aside, what do you think is causing the massive drop in fertility and semen counts in western men?[1] It's one thing to handwave away things you don't like, but we know semen counts have never been this low, so why do you think that is? [0] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26454754/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26454754/ [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p...
anemoiac 4y ago
To begin with, you haven't even defined "hookup culture," much less demonstrated that its prevalence is significant enough to influence birth rates or, further, proven that its influence on birth rates would be negative in the first place. That said, why assume a nebulous concept like "hookup culture" is causing declining birth rates when a simple google search will reveal plenty of well-studied factors with demonstrated influence on fertility (not to mention far more cultural universality). For reference, some examples include: increased educational attainment among women, increased labor-force participation among women, increased urbanization, increased cost-of-living
- yucky 4y ago
  >To begin with, you haven't even defined "hookup culture" It's pretty well defined and has been for some time. The link was posted in the thread, but here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture.
  - anemoiac 4y ago
    As a young-er person in the West, I'm well aware of the term's general meaning. The linked article you provide fails to define it in any way that would be empirically meaningful with regard to the study of birth rates. You haven't given us any reason to suspect that American college students, or their European peers, engaging in casual sex (the focus of the linked article) has any impact on birth rates. Based on the above, as well as your lack of engagement with any of the fertility-related factors I provided, I'm assuming you're more interested in voicing some sort of cultural critique than discussing actual drivers behind trends in birth rates.