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I’m part of a running group with a mix of Garmin and Apple Watches and the Apple Watches always have pretty different distant readings according to Strava, mayb

by cianmm 4y ago

I’m part of a running group with a mix of Garmin and Apple Watches and the Apple Watches always have pretty different distant readings according to Strava, maybe 2%-5%. The Garmin devices are generally much closer together. I wonder if the dual-band GPS on the Apple Watch Ultra is an attempt to fix these problems? I would guess that it’s software, with the author, if for no other reason than I’d be surprised if Garmin were all that much better at putting GPS in a tiny housing than Apple.

kadoban 4y ago
> I would guess that it’s software, with the author, if for no other reason than I’d be surprised if Garmin were all that much better at putting GPS in a tiny housing than Apple. After "you're holding it wrong", anything seems possible. But yeah that does seem more likely to be software, it's a surprisingly difficult and fuzzily-defined problem.
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  My Apple Watch seems to get things wrong differently depending on the shape of my route. I often train on a track that I exactly know the lap distance for, and if I do a 10 mile run the watch will usually tell me that I’ve run about 9.5 miles. Which I kinda presume is due to the location sampling rate cutting distance off the oval shaped track. But every marathon I’ve run with the watch, it puts the full distance about .5 to .25 miles before the finish line.
- Clent 4y ago
  Weird hill to die on with Apple. That's a 10 year old issue with an iPhone 4, said by a CEO that is long dead. They gave everyone free bumpers, because sweaty fingers would close the antenna gaps. The statement was true, the gaps were placed where they were expected to least affect the grip. What exactly would you expect in this case? The messaging worked. If your iPhone 4 was having signal issue, consider readjusting your hand. Apple sent out free cases to compensate for the issue. This is not the nightmare scenario that non-iPhone users made it out to be. Apple haters, like any group of haters are a silly bunch.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    It was a bizarre-ass thing to go with from a serious company. They'll be getting shit for that for decades. Sorry, I guess? > This is not the nightmare scenario that non-iPhone users made it out to be. Apple haters, like any group of haters are a silly bunch. What nightmare scenario did I imply? I think you're being a little overenthusiastic here. It was just a funny example to show that Apple isn't above screwing up hardware stuff/radios from time to time.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      > They'll be getting shit for that for decades. I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal benefit to gain notoriety. Not being an antenna engineer, I had also noticed the exact same issue on my Motorola v551 years before, but not that it had anything to do with the grip, merely touching the device anywhere on it caused signal degradation. Apparently, this was a known issue that existed for decades, long before cell phones became ordinary, and the issue can be reproduced on every cell phone from every manufacturer, as well as ordinary radios, and anything that uses an antenna. But I didn't remotely think to try to attack Motorola for personal benefit. I just set the phone down when signal was weak and used bluetooth for data or calls, eliminating the issue, which wasn't Apple's fault and is apparently due to the limitations of antennas. Singling out Apple was ignorant and deceptive, and fundamentally, Steve Jobs was correct about what that guy was doing, intentionally holding it in an unnatural way in order to produce the effect. That entire affair was nothing but a hatchet job that had nothing to do with user satisfaction and everything to do with negative and toxic personalities that irrationally believe they can gain personal satisfaction by causing misery. The most insidious types of mental illness are those where the mentally ill individual themselves do not suffer, instead they are compelled to make others suffer, which is how narcissism is generationally sustained.
      - kadoban 4y ago
sjkelly 4y ago
Dual band GPS on my Garmin is certainly amazing. It is mind blowing seeing accuracy down to which side of the street I was on during a run.
mtts 4y ago
> I’d be surprised if Garmin were all that much better at putting GPS in a tiny housing than Apple. Given Garmin’s long, long history as a manufacturer of (often very small) GPS devices, I personally wouldn’t be. (I also know for a fact they do mapping better. This summer I was in the South of Italy and only Garmin accurately distinguished between small public roads and long private driveways while both Google and Apple royally messed this up.)
- wslh 4y ago
  I used to use a FitBit Ionic (GPS enabled watch) and now use a Garmin watch and fortunately it shows a more accurate and better exercise results. In terms of running I saw a difference of ~10-20% in the distance measured in some terrains. I have not precisely compared everything. BTW the Fitbit Ionic GPS stopped working and now (if it didn't expire) I will go for the health (battery) recall: https://help.fitbit.com/en_US/ionic.htm https://help.fitbit.com/en_US/ionic.htm and give them to another person. This will be the second replacement since this model stopped working after 1 yr of use and Fitbit sent me a new one.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
oezi 4y ago
I wonder if author really got a GPS fix before starting to run. I have clocked 100 runs on watch os 8 exactely along one identical path and usually it is within 3-5 meters where I get the 1km announcement.
- workbytaylor 4y ago
  Which app do you use to record runs on Apple watch? I've found Strava's own little app to be much more accurate than Apple's workout app.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> I wonder if the dual-band GPS on the Apple Watch Ultra is an attempt to fix these problems? The author said their watch worked fine in the past. It also works fine after a warm up period, which suggests it’s not getting a GPS lock at the start of the workout. It’s a new issue of either a software regression, hardware degradation, or RF interference near their start point.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  I thought this was a well known issue with the Apple watches? They only start looking for a GPS fix once you start the workout, which is the worst time since, well, you already started the workout and are running, making getting that fix that much harder. I think the Ultra watches now have an option to wait for a fix before starting (which is what always happens on the Garmin's).
  - 8ytecoder 4y ago
    Apple Watch uses the iPhone’s gps when the phone is close by.
    - ldrndll 4y ago
      This is no longer true for Series 8 and Ultra watches. What I’ve not found out is whether this true of any Apple Watch running watchOS 9 or just the latest models.
      - water8 4y ago
        Watch will use the phones GPS because it has a bigger battery unless you separate them and then it will use it on
    - mpweiher 4y ago
      The point of the watch is not needing to bring you phone...
- pmuk 4y ago

by cianmm 4y ago

kadoban 4y ago

> I would guess that it’s software, with the author, if for no other reason than I’d be surprised if Garmin were all that much better at putting GPS in a tiny housing than Apple. After "you're holding it wrong", anything seems possible. But yeah that does seem more likely to be software, it's a surprisingly difficult and fuzzily-defined problem.

AmericanChopper 4y ago
My Apple Watch seems to get things wrong differently depending on the shape of my route. I often train on a track that I exactly know the lap distance for, and if I do a 10 mile run the watch will usually tell me that I’ve run about 9.5 miles. Which I kinda presume is due to the location sampling rate cutting distance off the oval shaped track. But every marathon I’ve run with the watch, it puts the full distance about .5 to .25 miles before the finish line.
Clent 4y ago
Weird hill to die on with Apple. That's a 10 year old issue with an iPhone 4, said by a CEO that is long dead. They gave everyone free bumpers, because sweaty fingers would close the antenna gaps. The statement was true, the gaps were placed where they were expected to least affect the grip. What exactly would you expect in this case? The messaging worked. If your iPhone 4 was having signal issue, consider readjusting your hand. Apple sent out free cases to compensate for the issue. This is not the nightmare scenario that non-iPhone users made it out to be. Apple haters, like any group of haters are a silly bunch.
- kadoban 4y ago
  It was a bizarre-ass thing to go with from a serious company. They'll be getting shit for that for decades. Sorry, I guess? > This is not the nightmare scenario that non-iPhone users made it out to be. Apple haters, like any group of haters are a silly bunch. What nightmare scenario did I imply? I think you're being a little overenthusiastic here. It was just a funny example to show that Apple isn't above screwing up hardware stuff/radios from time to time.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > They'll be getting shit for that for decades. I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal benefit to gain notoriety. Not being an antenna engineer, I had also noticed the exact same issue on my Motorola v551 years before, but not that it had anything to do with the grip, merely touching the device anywhere on it caused signal degradation. Apparently, this was a known issue that existed for decades, long before cell phones became ordinary, and the issue can be reproduced on every cell phone from every manufacturer, as well as ordinary radios, and anything that uses an antenna. But I didn't remotely think to try to attack Motorola for personal benefit. I just set the phone down when signal was weak and used bluetooth for data or calls, eliminating the issue, which wasn't Apple's fault and is apparently due to the limitations of antennas. Singling out Apple was ignorant and deceptive, and fundamentally, Steve Jobs was correct about what that guy was doing, intentionally holding it in an unnatural way in order to produce the effect. That entire affair was nothing but a hatchet job that had nothing to do with user satisfaction and everything to do with negative and toxic personalities that irrationally believe they can gain personal satisfaction by causing misery. The most insidious types of mental illness are those where the mentally ill individual themselves do not suffer, instead they are compelled to make others suffer, which is how narcissism is generationally sustained.
    - kadoban 4y ago

sjkelly 4y ago

Dual band GPS on my Garmin is certainly amazing. It is mind blowing seeing accuracy down to which side of the street I was on during a run.

mtts 4y ago

> I’d be surprised if Garmin were all that much better at putting GPS in a tiny housing than Apple. Given Garmin’s long, long history as a manufacturer of (often very small) GPS devices, I personally wouldn’t be. (I also know for a fact they do mapping better. This summer I was in the South of Italy and only Garmin accurately distinguished between small public roads and long private driveways while both Google and Apple royally messed this up.)

wslh 4y ago
I used to use a FitBit Ionic (GPS enabled watch) and now use a Garmin watch and fortunately it shows a more accurate and better exercise results. In terms of running I saw a difference of ~10-20% in the distance measured in some terrains. I have not precisely compared everything. BTW the Fitbit Ionic GPS stopped working and now (if it didn't expire) I will go for the health (battery) recall: https://help.fitbit.com/en_US/ionic.htm https://help.fitbit.com/en_US/ionic.htm and give them to another person. This will be the second replacement since this model stopped working after 1 yr of use and Fitbit sent me a new one.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

oezi 4y ago

I wonder if author really got a GPS fix before starting to run. I have clocked 100 runs on watch os 8 exactely along one identical path and usually it is within 3-5 meters where I get the 1km announcement.

workbytaylor 4y ago
Which app do you use to record runs on Apple watch? I've found Strava's own little app to be much more accurate than Apple's workout app.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> I wonder if the dual-band GPS on the Apple Watch Ultra is an attempt to fix these problems? The author said their watch worked fine in the past. It also works fine after a warm up period, which suggests it’s not getting a GPS lock at the start of the workout. It’s a new issue of either a software regression, hardware degradation, or RF interference near their start point.

stefan_ 4y ago
I thought this was a well known issue with the Apple watches? They only start looking for a GPS fix once you start the workout, which is the worst time since, well, you already started the workout and are running, making getting that fix that much harder. I think the Ultra watches now have an option to wait for a fix before starting (which is what always happens on the Garmin's).
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Apple Watch uses the iPhone’s gps when the phone is close by.
  - ldrndll 4y ago
    This is no longer true for Series 8 and Ultra watches. What I’ve not found out is whether this true of any Apple Watch running watchOS 9 or just the latest models.
    - water8 4y ago
      Watch will use the phones GPS because it has a bigger battery unless you separate them and then it will use it on
  - mpweiher 4y ago
    The point of the watch is not needing to bring you phone...
pmuk 4y ago