30 ms·

Self-control secrets of the Puritan masters

130 points by dash2 4y ago

sposeray 4y ago
[dead]
teddyh 4y ago
Warning: “Art by Stable Diffusion”. (I read the whole article assuming that the images were real historical images, until I saw the last image, which was obviously generated.) I feel somewhat decieved. If you’re going to use fake images, why not go all the way and generate the whole article text as well?
- dash2 4y ago
  It says Art by Stable Diffusion on the first image. There are few real historical images of Puritans meditating, levitating and doing yoga!
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    In tiny, low contrast text. Easy to miss.
  - mylons 4y ago
    lol. i haven’t read the blog yet, but were puritans actually doing yoga?!
  - rgrieselhuber 4y ago
    Indeed and you can tell just by looking at the second image that it is not authentic yoga, the spinal alignment is completely off.
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  Those fooled you? They're terrible.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    I skimmed the images, and the initial images were woodcut-style, and not very obviously fake. Only the last one was styled like an engraving, and was much more obvious.
    - anothernewdude 4y ago
      It may become more obvious the more you see. Like CGI effects. Amazing the first time, but once you get used to them, your brain learns to distinguish them. Like facial features typical of ethnicities - you can distinguish between those you see most often.
      - teddyh 4y ago
        I agree, and I even wrote as such here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32498244 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32498244
- DennisP 4y ago
  Warning: modern artists are perfectly capable of making illustrations like that even without the assistance of fancy AI.
- starkd 4y ago
erganemic 4y ago
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us." - Ecclesiastes 1:9-10, KJV
- thrown_22 4y ago
  We fused the atom and became gods. It's just that godhood is not evenly distributed yet.
  - kingkawn 4y ago
    Ain’t no gods walking this earth, just a bunch of pompous fools who give themselves goosebumps by calling themselves gods
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      And yet we're still better than a god who would drown the world for reasons. But then he promised never to do it again with a rainbow.
      - kingkawn 4y ago
        God gave Noah the rainbow sign / No more water / the fire next time
      - lonelyasacloud 4y ago
        > "And yet we're still better than a god who would drown the world for reasons." And one of the consequences of global warming is?
      - Eleison23 4y ago
        He drowned the world once, but did he not instruct His faithful servant how to weather that storm? Did He not guide Noah's hand to build an ark, to gather animals and his family, to ride the waves until the time was ripe to repopulate the Earth with righteousness? Was that all Noah's Godlike doing, or did he benefit from divine assistance?
rgrieselhuber 4y ago
From what I’ve read, of all the post-Reformation Christian denominations in the West, the Puritans seemed the closest to Orthodox Christianity, not necessarily in every dogmatic theological detail but in their approach to repentance as self-knowledge and taking an active role in improving the state of their soul. The sola fide notion that came out of the Reformation has resulted in a “set it and forget it” set of beliefs where it is hard to see much in the way of self-control or self-knowledge.
- _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
  > their approach to repentance as self-knowledge and taking an active role in improving the state of their soul I find this suggestion very hard to square with the prominence of Predestination in Puritan theology.
  - rgrieselhuber 4y ago
    There were / are many theological concepts in the West that diverge from what the early Church taught due to the Schism of Rome, so I view some of that as symptoms of working within a broken chain of knowledge to begin with, but I do agree that the idea of Predestination as rigidly defined within Calvinist tradition undermines the notions of free will both of humans and of the Creator Himself. That being said, of all the Western Churches, it was the Puritans (specifically John Winthrop) who had the intelligence and courage to secure the Massachusetts Charter from King Charles I, providing both the intellectual and legal basis for liberty from the Continental monarchies.
- rpmisms 4y ago
  I am Orthodox, but it isn't limited to Orthodox thought. A common way by which people come to Orthodoxy is through Buddhism or related easter mysticism, and then realize that Christian thinking combined with true mysticism is the way for them. Self-knowledge is really the core of a good life, and I'll happily die on that hill.
  - rgrieselhuber 4y ago
fedeb95 4y ago
In case you're tempted to fall for this rough classification of modern sins and a revival of old ones, think again and discover how awfully biased this article is toward a certain moral. If you sleep with dogs...
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  > In case you're tempted to fall for this rough classification of modern sins and a revival of old ones, think again Or, do a basic google search on Puritans and their punishments ...
thrown_22 4y ago
I wonder if in coming decades people will look at stable diffusion as the worst of corporate art. Skeuomorphism at least looked attractive if incredibly gaudy, this is just terrible.
sramsay 4y ago
The author is drawing comparisons (playfully, I admit) with Buddhism, but the Puritans were following a tradition that goes back to late antiquity in the west. Books like the ones being described, in which the "psychology of sin" (so to speak) is dissected and various remedies put forth goes back at least to Evagrius (4th century), and likely far further than that. The Reformers sought to change many aspects of the "old religion," but a basic asceticism was not among them.
- dash2 4y ago
  I'd love to know more about this, why not expand your comment?
api 4y ago
I’m starting to think the Diamond Age by Neil Stephenson may end up being prophetic. In a culture overloaded with things trying to addict you, Puritanism becomes in fact an act of protest and transgression.
- tsol 4y ago
  I mean I grew up leftist, punk rocker, etc and all my formerly niche opinions are now in the mainstream. On the other hand, I also grew up Muslim and I can say that being a practicing Muslim right now can feel very counter- cultural. Dealing with constantly waves of anti- religious criticism from atheists(which for some reason liberals seem okay with, so I have to deal with this everywhere online), views that the government doesn't approve of in their current idea of what is acceptable, fighting to make me and my communities voice heard when neither party in power is really interested in listening to our complaints-- this all feels very rebellious to me as someone who grew up rebelling. I'm not even interested in rebelling anymore, but at this point the system does not even try to represent us.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Yes, we seem to have reached a point that being discriminatory against religion, a persons looks or being lower class are the few traits that are somehow still fashionable despite everything else being a cause for censorship, loss of employment, lawsuit or prosecution. Note, to front-run the typical knee-jerk reaction: I do not believe the religious are in some way actually oppressed, but that those most on the left who scream of oppression everywhere are extremely comfortable with making snide remarks on religion (and class, provided its white people). Ironically this runs up against the preferences of the people the left wishes to keep inside their political tent - they are almost universally more religious on average than white people.
    - dan_mctree 4y ago
      > I do not believe the religious are in some way actually oppressed Aren't they? Sure, western religious oppression is not violent and nothing compared to what happens in say Iran. But there are many circles where coming out as religious is a terrible idea and religious people feel it and end up self-suppressing and hiding their identity. Who wants to be known as the Christian when the world has decided they are idiots at best or villains at worst? You never quite know when it's safe to open up and when you could face sudden social exclusion, bullying, internet mobs, career impacts, etc. If this comment were under my real name I'm not sure I'd have dared type it with the way the winds are blowing. Even with anonymity, it's giving me pause whether it's really a good idea.
neither_color 4y ago
There’s an explosion of new movements and techniques to fight procrastination, from Pomodoro (which gives you timed breaks when your tomato-shaped kitchen timer runs out) to self-help books and subreddits... The highlight of my early 20s was embracing the hedonism treadmill as a rejection of "imposed morals", only to spend countless hours trying tons of self help books and listening to podcasts about discipline and grit and motivation and positive thinking, etc. At some point, no matter which path you take, you'll find good secular justification for limiting your exposure to toxic people in life and limiting your swearing to improve your vocabulary and avoiding processed food, short term hookups, sleeping well, helping others, meditating, saying affirmations, thinking positively(using faith to counteract "rational evidence" that something will fail or wont work) and so on. You're following so many rules (self developed through experience and knowledge) that it gives you more appreciation for how the different religions were themselves using heuristics developed over thousands of years of trial and error to give you an optimal set of rules that would more than likely produce the best outcome for your life, given the environmental constraints and lack of scientific knowledge at the time. It was not simply "sky daddy made rulebook"
- alexvoda 4y ago
  However, the environmental constraints change and the amount of scientific knowledge also changes(and hopefully improves) over time. Therefore the heuristics turned into rule book will inevitably become harmful eventually. Also keep in mind that the rulebooks did not produce anything close to any ideal personal outcome. They always produced the ideal societal outcome that would preserve the existing structure of society. If said structure meant you were inherently harmed, your personal ideal was subordinated to that.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Your response reminds me of the quote: “Tradition is a set of solutions for which we have forgotten the problems. Throw away the solution and you get the problem back. Sometimes the problem has mutated or disappeared. Often it is still there as strong as it ever was.” ― Donald Kingsbury Watching our politics speed-run the 60s-80s again reminds me of this every day. Hopefully we hit the 90s soon, those were pretty rad.
6stringmerc 4y ago
Conspicuously Absent: The Puritan method of avoiding temptation by invading neighboring communities that did not share their austere and guilt-riddled lifestyle choice, driving them from their homes, taking them prisoner, and/or outright murder in the name of their self-proclaimed righteousness. There’s a reason they got chased out of wherever they showed up…history should rightfully remember them as a bunch of self-important no-fun assclowns.
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  I was thinking also of this: > If life coaches make their living by pushing us to do what we know we ought to, for a Puritan, the whole community of brethren was the coach. Has this person even heard of "The Scarlet Letter"? Or know anything about Puritans using stocks, whips or brands on sinners? Or mutilating them by cutting off ears or boring holes in their tongues. When I think of "life coach" I don't envision someone branding me or cutting off an ear if I don't meet this weeks "life goal"
  - starkd 4y ago
    Oh, c'mon. Everyone knows there's more depth to history than the common populist version. As a group, most humans fail miserably. At any time in history, this is is so. This doesn't mean individual's from any era have nothing to offer in terms of understanding ourselves. You might try broadening your reading list beyond the high school approved reading list.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  We are free to pick and choose what we think is worth preserving or adopting.
  - Kye 4y ago
    But maybe let's avoid things that are dependent on violent overthrow of competing ideologies. If a way of life only works by crushing other ways, it's a bit garbage.
jkcorrea 4y ago
“make conscience of the idle rovings of our braines” and “enter… those darke closets of thy heart” I've been battling a few addictions recently. None so severe that they impacted my health or relationships in any major way, and so I lived with these habits very functionally for most of my adult life. It's incredible the kind of grip a habit can have on you. Despite how much I tried to change, that grip only grew tighter. It wasn't until I joined a 12 step program and met people who were like me that I started the process of unwinding. Making conscience every thought that led to my negative behaviors was the first step. The next giant hurdle was de-identifying with those thoughts and behaviors, which for me was probably the hardest part. Probably the best tool for me right now is like the quote says, to just really examine your thoughts and honestly tell yourself why you're having the craving/urge. If you can really be honest about it and recognize your addiction is only going to make the situation worse, I find you can start to "dampen" the craving. It suddenly isn't as appealing. It's not easy though, for every time I can successfully introspect and tell myself an honest, hard truth, there's 10 times I tell a self-lie and let myself believe it simply because to know otherwise would be too big a burden to bear in that moment I didn't last long in the 12 step program, maybe it's not exactly for me. But a lot of what's talked about in this article is also part of 12 step: self-awareness, daily journaling and gratitude, spiritualizing others, having a community to go through the process with, etc. Even though I didn't continue with it, the few meetings I attended were honestly life changing and I highly recommend anyone who thinks they may have an addiction problem (pro tip: if you arent sure but a specific behavior came to mind, you probably do) to try one out. There's plenty for all kinds of addictions, turns out you're not alone
swayvil 4y ago
There's a world of difference between "look within yourself" and "believe this authoritative stuff about what lays within yourself". Just like today, 99.99% did the latter. Trusting the narrative of the hour, conforming to the hivemind, etc. That's people for you. And all this fine discipline and self-control was guided by this broken perspective. Like a fine Lamborghini driven into a tree by a drunk. Don't blame the Lamborghini, blame the drunk.
KaiserPro 4y ago
I think drawing inspiration on temperance from "puritans" based on their own writings is possible only going to tell you how they wanted to be perceived. "puritanism" and thats a wide term isn't overly specific. the mayflower lot were "the Leiden congregation" or something similar. You can see the range of opinion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#/media/File:Catalogue_of_Sects.GIF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#/media/File... Also, as the colonies that were founded on religion were based on social regulation, by people reporting, or falling out with others for not following convention. in short, its more playground than useable self discipline example.
otikik 4y ago
Master bath ion.
aliasxneo 4y ago
I appreciate the content provided, but I'm a bit confused about who the target audience is in this piece. The methodologies employed by the Puritans in regard to soul care were dependent on accepting the fact that Christ is alive and active in us, working through His Spirit. Attempting these techniques from a purely secular standpoint is likely to not result in much value. "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12-13)
- tluyben2 4y ago
  I read it as history, as I see anything religious; interesting folklore and history.
  - aliasxneo 4y ago
    That makes sense, but I didn't see the thrust of the article as a history lesson, it seemed to be recommending Puritan methodologies outside of their religious context.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
I prefer self-control to government legislation or peer pressure. There was an article here on HN about a spying app that lets your church community make sure you're not watching porn. So bizarre. Either you believe in what you're doing or you don't.
- drdeca 4y ago
  Is the reason you view it that way due to having anti-anti-porn sentiments? Suppose instead of a app where a church community can see whether the person who has installed the application has viewed pornography, you instead consider someone who has suffered from alcoholism and is trying to stay away from alcohol, and wishes to be held accountable to others for their decisions. (Now, of course, one difference between these scenarios is that alcoholism is like, a medical condition? but the analogy is about the type of intervention, not saying that the two scenarios exactly correspond.) What one might call a "revealed preference" might not be a preference that the person who has it, endorses. Suppose someone is finding that they keep distracting themself with some diversion (perhaps a videogame) when the course of action they endorse for themself is to complete some other task first. They might turn to their friend, hand them the (e.g.) video game console or whatever, and tell their friend to hold on to it until they've demonstrated to the friend that they've accomplished the task. Of course, if someone doesn't choose such an arrangement, and it is foisted on them by others, then that can be more questionable, but the general mechanism of using others, and the judgement of others, to guide one's actions towards what one wants one's future actions to be like, is legitimate, and can be useful.
- a1369209993 4y ago
  To be fair, enlisting peer pressure to help you keep your resolutions is a perfectly legitimate tactic if you're the sort of person that works for. The reason apps like are bad and should be felony-illegal is that they're mostly used to force victims to obey someone else's resolutions, to the point that the whole class of software is named after the fact that the typical intended victims are children: "parental controls" or "nannyware".
seizethecheese 4y ago
I enjoy reading old texts on how to live. Recommendation: Epictetus’ Discourses. This article was interesting enough but I couldn’t find any of the cited texts online. Is anyone aware or examples that you can actually access?

130 points by dash2 4y ago

[dead]

Warning: “Art by Stable Diffusion”. (I read the whole article assuming that the images were real historical images, until I saw the last image, which was obviously generated.) I feel somewhat decieved. If you’re going to use fake images, why not go all the way and generate the whole article text as well?

dash2 4y ago
It says Art by Stable Diffusion on the first image. There are few real historical images of Puritans meditating, levitating and doing yoga!
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  In tiny, low contrast text. Easy to miss.
- mylons 4y ago
  lol. i haven’t read the blog yet, but were puritans actually doing yoga?!
- rgrieselhuber 4y ago
  Indeed and you can tell just by looking at the second image that it is not authentic yoga, the spinal alignment is completely off.
anothernewdude 4y ago
Those fooled you? They're terrible.
- teddyh 4y ago
  I skimmed the images, and the initial images were woodcut-style, and not very obviously fake. Only the last one was styled like an engraving, and was much more obvious.
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    It may become more obvious the more you see. Like CGI effects. Amazing the first time, but once you get used to them, your brain learns to distinguish them. Like facial features typical of ethnicities - you can distinguish between those you see most often.
    - teddyh 4y ago
      I agree, and I even wrote as such here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32498244 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32498244
DennisP 4y ago
Warning: modern artists are perfectly capable of making illustrations like that even without the assistance of fancy AI.
starkd 4y ago

erganemic 4y ago

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us." - Ecclesiastes 1:9-10, KJV

thrown_22 4y ago
We fused the atom and became gods. It's just that godhood is not evenly distributed yet.
- kingkawn 4y ago
  Ain’t no gods walking this earth, just a bunch of pompous fools who give themselves goosebumps by calling themselves gods
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    And yet we're still better than a god who would drown the world for reasons. But then he promised never to do it again with a rainbow.
    - kingkawn 4y ago
      God gave Noah the rainbow sign / No more water / the fire next time
    - lonelyasacloud 4y ago
      > "And yet we're still better than a god who would drown the world for reasons." And one of the consequences of global warming is?
    - Eleison23 4y ago
      He drowned the world once, but did he not instruct His faithful servant how to weather that storm? Did He not guide Noah's hand to build an ark, to gather animals and his family, to ride the waves until the time was ripe to repopulate the Earth with righteousness? Was that all Noah's Godlike doing, or did he benefit from divine assistance?

rgrieselhuber 4y ago

From what I’ve read, of all the post-Reformation Christian denominations in the West, the Puritans seemed the closest to Orthodox Christianity, not necessarily in every dogmatic theological detail but in their approach to repentance as self-knowledge and taking an active role in improving the state of their soul. The sola fide notion that came out of the Reformation has resulted in a “set it and forget it” set of beliefs where it is hard to see much in the way of self-control or self-knowledge.

_emacsomancer_ 4y ago
> their approach to repentance as self-knowledge and taking an active role in improving the state of their soul I find this suggestion very hard to square with the prominence of Predestination in Puritan theology.
- rgrieselhuber 4y ago
  There were / are many theological concepts in the West that diverge from what the early Church taught due to the Schism of Rome, so I view some of that as symptoms of working within a broken chain of knowledge to begin with, but I do agree that the idea of Predestination as rigidly defined within Calvinist tradition undermines the notions of free will both of humans and of the Creator Himself. That being said, of all the Western Churches, it was the Puritans (specifically John Winthrop) who had the intelligence and courage to secure the Massachusetts Charter from King Charles I, providing both the intellectual and legal basis for liberty from the Continental monarchies.
rpmisms 4y ago
I am Orthodox, but it isn't limited to Orthodox thought. A common way by which people come to Orthodoxy is through Buddhism or related easter mysticism, and then realize that Christian thinking combined with true mysticism is the way for them. Self-knowledge is really the core of a good life, and I'll happily die on that hill.
- rgrieselhuber 4y ago

fedeb95 4y ago

In case you're tempted to fall for this rough classification of modern sins and a revival of old ones, think again and discover how awfully biased this article is toward a certain moral. If you sleep with dogs...

Ensorceled 4y ago
> In case you're tempted to fall for this rough classification of modern sins and a revival of old ones, think again Or, do a basic google search on Puritans and their punishments ...

thrown_22 4y ago

I wonder if in coming decades people will look at stable diffusion as the worst of corporate art. Skeuomorphism at least looked attractive if incredibly gaudy, this is just terrible.

sramsay 4y ago

The author is drawing comparisons (playfully, I admit) with Buddhism, but the Puritans were following a tradition that goes back to late antiquity in the west. Books like the ones being described, in which the "psychology of sin" (so to speak) is dissected and various remedies put forth goes back at least to Evagrius (4th century), and likely far further than that. The Reformers sought to change many aspects of the "old religion," but a basic asceticism was not among them.

dash2 4y ago
I'd love to know more about this, why not expand your comment?

api 4y ago

I’m starting to think the Diamond Age by Neil Stephenson may end up being prophetic. In a culture overloaded with things trying to addict you, Puritanism becomes in fact an act of protest and transgression.

tsol 4y ago
I mean I grew up leftist, punk rocker, etc and all my formerly niche opinions are now in the mainstream. On the other hand, I also grew up Muslim and I can say that being a practicing Muslim right now can feel very counter- cultural. Dealing with constantly waves of anti- religious criticism from atheists(which for some reason liberals seem okay with, so I have to deal with this everywhere online), views that the government doesn't approve of in their current idea of what is acceptable, fighting to make me and my communities voice heard when neither party in power is really interested in listening to our complaints-- this all feels very rebellious to me as someone who grew up rebelling. I'm not even interested in rebelling anymore, but at this point the system does not even try to represent us.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Yes, we seem to have reached a point that being discriminatory against religion, a persons looks or being lower class are the few traits that are somehow still fashionable despite everything else being a cause for censorship, loss of employment, lawsuit or prosecution. Note, to front-run the typical knee-jerk reaction: I do not believe the religious are in some way actually oppressed, but that those most on the left who scream of oppression everywhere are extremely comfortable with making snide remarks on religion (and class, provided its white people). Ironically this runs up against the preferences of the people the left wishes to keep inside their political tent - they are almost universally more religious on average than white people.
  - dan_mctree 4y ago
    > I do not believe the religious are in some way actually oppressed Aren't they? Sure, western religious oppression is not violent and nothing compared to what happens in say Iran. But there are many circles where coming out as religious is a terrible idea and religious people feel it and end up self-suppressing and hiding their identity. Who wants to be known as the Christian when the world has decided they are idiots at best or villains at worst? You never quite know when it's safe to open up and when you could face sudden social exclusion, bullying, internet mobs, career impacts, etc. If this comment were under my real name I'm not sure I'd have dared type it with the way the winds are blowing. Even with anonymity, it's giving me pause whether it's really a good idea.

neither_color 4y ago

There’s an explosion of new movements and techniques to fight procrastination, from Pomodoro (which gives you timed breaks when your tomato-shaped kitchen timer runs out) to self-help books and subreddits... The highlight of my early 20s was embracing the hedonism treadmill as a rejection of "imposed morals", only to spend countless hours trying tons of self help books and listening to podcasts about discipline and grit and motivation and positive thinking, etc. At some point, no matter which path you take, you'll find good secular justification for limiting your exposure to toxic people in life and limiting your swearing to improve your vocabulary and avoiding processed food, short term hookups, sleeping well, helping others, meditating, saying affirmations, thinking positively(using faith to counteract "rational evidence" that something will fail or wont work) and so on. You're following so many rules (self developed through experience and knowledge) that it gives you more appreciation for how the different religions were themselves using heuristics developed over thousands of years of trial and error to give you an optimal set of rules that would more than likely produce the best outcome for your life, given the environmental constraints and lack of scientific knowledge at the time. It was not simply "sky daddy made rulebook"

alexvoda 4y ago
However, the environmental constraints change and the amount of scientific knowledge also changes(and hopefully improves) over time. Therefore the heuristics turned into rule book will inevitably become harmful eventually. Also keep in mind that the rulebooks did not produce anything close to any ideal personal outcome. They always produced the ideal societal outcome that would preserve the existing structure of society. If said structure meant you were inherently harmed, your personal ideal was subordinated to that.
steveBK123 4y ago
Your response reminds me of the quote: “Tradition is a set of solutions for which we have forgotten the problems. Throw away the solution and you get the problem back. Sometimes the problem has mutated or disappeared. Often it is still there as strong as it ever was.” ― Donald Kingsbury Watching our politics speed-run the 60s-80s again reminds me of this every day. Hopefully we hit the 90s soon, those were pretty rad.

6stringmerc 4y ago

Conspicuously Absent: The Puritan method of avoiding temptation by invading neighboring communities that did not share their austere and guilt-riddled lifestyle choice, driving them from their homes, taking them prisoner, and/or outright murder in the name of their self-proclaimed righteousness. There’s a reason they got chased out of wherever they showed up…history should rightfully remember them as a bunch of self-important no-fun assclowns.

Ensorceled 4y ago
I was thinking also of this: > If life coaches make their living by pushing us to do what we know we ought to, for a Puritan, the whole community of brethren was the coach. Has this person even heard of "The Scarlet Letter"? Or know anything about Puritans using stocks, whips or brands on sinners? Or mutilating them by cutting off ears or boring holes in their tongues. When I think of "life coach" I don't envision someone branding me or cutting off an ear if I don't meet this weeks "life goal"
- starkd 4y ago
  Oh, c'mon. Everyone knows there's more depth to history than the common populist version. As a group, most humans fail miserably. At any time in history, this is is so. This doesn't mean individual's from any era have nothing to offer in terms of understanding ourselves. You might try broadening your reading list beyond the high school approved reading list.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
We are free to pick and choose what we think is worth preserving or adopting.
- Kye 4y ago
  But maybe let's avoid things that are dependent on violent overthrow of competing ideologies. If a way of life only works by crushing other ways, it's a bit garbage.

jkcorrea 4y ago

“make conscience of the idle rovings of our braines” and “enter… those darke closets of thy heart” I've been battling a few addictions recently. None so severe that they impacted my health or relationships in any major way, and so I lived with these habits very functionally for most of my adult life. It's incredible the kind of grip a habit can have on you. Despite how much I tried to change, that grip only grew tighter. It wasn't until I joined a 12 step program and met people who were like me that I started the process of unwinding. Making conscience every thought that led to my negative behaviors was the first step. The next giant hurdle was de-identifying with those thoughts and behaviors, which for me was probably the hardest part. Probably the best tool for me right now is like the quote says, to just really examine your thoughts and honestly tell yourself why you're having the craving/urge. If you can really be honest about it and recognize your addiction is only going to make the situation worse, I find you can start to "dampen" the craving. It suddenly isn't as appealing. It's not easy though, for every time I can successfully introspect and tell myself an honest, hard truth, there's 10 times I tell a self-lie and let myself believe it simply because to know otherwise would be too big a burden to bear in that moment I didn't last long in the 12 step program, maybe it's not exactly for me. But a lot of what's talked about in this article is also part of 12 step: self-awareness, daily journaling and gratitude, spiritualizing others, having a community to go through the process with, etc. Even though I didn't continue with it, the few meetings I attended were honestly life changing and I highly recommend anyone who thinks they may have an addiction problem (pro tip: if you arent sure but a specific behavior came to mind, you probably do) to try one out. There's plenty for all kinds of addictions, turns out you're not alone

swayvil 4y ago

There's a world of difference between "look within yourself" and "believe this authoritative stuff about what lays within yourself". Just like today, 99.99% did the latter. Trusting the narrative of the hour, conforming to the hivemind, etc. That's people for you. And all this fine discipline and self-control was guided by this broken perspective. Like a fine Lamborghini driven into a tree by a drunk. Don't blame the Lamborghini, blame the drunk.

KaiserPro 4y ago

I think drawing inspiration on temperance from "puritans" based on their own writings is possible only going to tell you how they wanted to be perceived. "puritanism" and thats a wide term isn't overly specific. the mayflower lot were "the Leiden congregation" or something similar. You can see the range of opinion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#/media/File:Catalogue_of_Sects.GIF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#/media/File... Also, as the colonies that were founded on religion were based on social regulation, by people reporting, or falling out with others for not following convention. in short, its more playground than useable self discipline example.

otikik 4y ago

Master bath ion.

aliasxneo 4y ago

I appreciate the content provided, but I'm a bit confused about who the target audience is in this piece. The methodologies employed by the Puritans in regard to soul care were dependent on accepting the fact that Christ is alive and active in us, working through His Spirit. Attempting these techniques from a purely secular standpoint is likely to not result in much value. "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12-13)

tluyben2 4y ago
I read it as history, as I see anything religious; interesting folklore and history.
- aliasxneo 4y ago
  That makes sense, but I didn't see the thrust of the article as a history lesson, it seemed to be recommending Puritan methodologies outside of their religious context.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

I prefer self-control to government legislation or peer pressure. There was an article here on HN about a spying app that lets your church community make sure you're not watching porn. So bizarre. Either you believe in what you're doing or you don't.

drdeca 4y ago
Is the reason you view it that way due to having anti-anti-porn sentiments? Suppose instead of a app where a church community can see whether the person who has installed the application has viewed pornography, you instead consider someone who has suffered from alcoholism and is trying to stay away from alcohol, and wishes to be held accountable to others for their decisions. (Now, of course, one difference between these scenarios is that alcoholism is like, a medical condition? but the analogy is about the type of intervention, not saying that the two scenarios exactly correspond.) What one might call a "revealed preference" might not be a preference that the person who has it, endorses. Suppose someone is finding that they keep distracting themself with some diversion (perhaps a videogame) when the course of action they endorse for themself is to complete some other task first. They might turn to their friend, hand them the (e.g.) video game console or whatever, and tell their friend to hold on to it until they've demonstrated to the friend that they've accomplished the task. Of course, if someone doesn't choose such an arrangement, and it is foisted on them by others, then that can be more questionable, but the general mechanism of using others, and the judgement of others, to guide one's actions towards what one wants one's future actions to be like, is legitimate, and can be useful.
a1369209993 4y ago
To be fair, enlisting peer pressure to help you keep your resolutions is a perfectly legitimate tactic if you're the sort of person that works for. The reason apps like are bad and should be felony-illegal is that they're mostly used to force victims to obey someone else's resolutions, to the point that the whole class of software is named after the fact that the typical intended victims are children: "parental controls" or "nannyware".

seizethecheese 4y ago

I enjoy reading old texts on how to live. Recommendation: Epictetus’ Discourses. This article was interesting enough but I couldn’t find any of the cited texts online. Is anyone aware or examples that you can actually access?