4 ms·

In 1978, airlines were deregulated. That triggered a race to the bottom. Absolutely ridiculous to try to blame unions.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
timr 4y ago
Neither ANA nor Asiana (from the GP comment) are regulated, yet they still have dramatically better service. That goes for most (if not all?) of the best airlines in the world. I'm not saying that GP is right, but it's equally facile to blame the difference on "deregulation". For whatever it's worth, in my experience, the staff of non-US airlines are dramatically better at their jobs. It's comical how bad the service is on US carriers, even for business and first class on long-haul routes.
- nawgz 4y ago
  I imagine being an airline employee pays better relative to the local jobs when you come from a non-US country. Air travel is generally geared towards a richer clientele, and the absolute costs don't really drop even when the countries involved are less wealthy, so I can see how that would mean there's more money / margin floating around airlines than traditional businesses, so they can attract a better class of employee
  - timr 4y ago
    Maybe? Standard of living is pretty high in Singapore, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan, all of whom have vastly better air travel experiences than the US. My inclination is that it's just linked to an overall decline in service across the board in the US. Even something as pedestrian as Starbucks or Tullys in Japan and Korea is a different class of customer experience than here. (The US isn't alone in this, of course -- the worst flight I've ever had was on a Spanish airline, and most European discount airlines are miserable. But you sort of expect that when "discount" is in the name of the service...)
- Sebguer 4y ago
  It absolutely was deregulation, combined with a pressure to compete, which got American airlines to their current state. Every single airline on this list, except for ANA, is a flag carrier or directly state-owned. America has no flag carrier and all of our airlines are in a knife fight with each other that just leaves them all barely functional.
  - timr 4y ago
    Asiana was not a "flag carrier". In fact, it went bankrupt and was put up for sale in 2019. [1] KAL has committed to buying Asiana, but it hasn't happened yet. Korean airlines is the "flag carrier" of Korea, but there are lots of others, and all of them are preferable to US service. As for Japan, ANA is a private company and AFAICT, always was. JAL was the "national airline" of Japan, but fully privatized in the late 80s, and is now smaller than ANA. Just for another example: Taiwan's "flag carrier" is China Air (which is mediocre), but EVA (which is private) provides excellent service. [1] https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/04/694_267194.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/04/694_267194.h...
    - Sebguer 4y ago
      Why are you even talking about Asiana? They're not on the top ten list at all. Korean Airlines is. I also literally said "except for ANA". Edit: Oh, sorry, I see - GP mentioned Asiana. I'm talking about the list in the actual article that's linked, which I think I made very clear?
      - timr 4y ago
        Because that is what I mentioned in my first post, and what the top of thread comment was talking about.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

timr 4y ago

Neither ANA nor Asiana (from the GP comment) are regulated, yet they still have dramatically better service. That goes for most (if not all?) of the best airlines in the world. I'm not saying that GP is right, but it's equally facile to blame the difference on "deregulation". For whatever it's worth, in my experience, the staff of non-US airlines are dramatically better at their jobs. It's comical how bad the service is on US carriers, even for business and first class on long-haul routes.

nawgz 4y ago
I imagine being an airline employee pays better relative to the local jobs when you come from a non-US country. Air travel is generally geared towards a richer clientele, and the absolute costs don't really drop even when the countries involved are less wealthy, so I can see how that would mean there's more money / margin floating around airlines than traditional businesses, so they can attract a better class of employee
- timr 4y ago
  Maybe? Standard of living is pretty high in Singapore, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan, all of whom have vastly better air travel experiences than the US. My inclination is that it's just linked to an overall decline in service across the board in the US. Even something as pedestrian as Starbucks or Tullys in Japan and Korea is a different class of customer experience than here. (The US isn't alone in this, of course -- the worst flight I've ever had was on a Spanish airline, and most European discount airlines are miserable. But you sort of expect that when "discount" is in the name of the service...)
Sebguer 4y ago
It absolutely was deregulation, combined with a pressure to compete, which got American airlines to their current state. Every single airline on this list, except for ANA, is a flag carrier or directly state-owned. America has no flag carrier and all of our airlines are in a knife fight with each other that just leaves them all barely functional.
- timr 4y ago
  Asiana was not a "flag carrier". In fact, it went bankrupt and was put up for sale in 2019. [1] KAL has committed to buying Asiana, but it hasn't happened yet. Korean airlines is the "flag carrier" of Korea, but there are lots of others, and all of them are preferable to US service. As for Japan, ANA is a private company and AFAICT, always was. JAL was the "national airline" of Japan, but fully privatized in the late 80s, and is now smaller than ANA. Just for another example: Taiwan's "flag carrier" is China Air (which is mediocre), but EVA (which is private) provides excellent service. [1] https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/04/694_267194.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/04/694_267194.h...
  - Sebguer 4y ago
    Why are you even talking about Asiana? They're not on the top ten list at all. Korean Airlines is. I also literally said "except for ANA". Edit: Oh, sorry, I see - GP mentioned Asiana. I'm talking about the list in the actual article that's linked, which I think I made very clear?
    - timr 4y ago
      Because that is what I mentioned in my first post, and what the top of thread comment was talking about.