5 ms·

I realize I'm going way against the grain of other commenters, but this video has made me aware of how little progress has actually been made since then. I mean

I realize I'm going way against the grain of other commenters, but this video has made me aware of how little progress has actually been made since then. I mean, the core ideas of the modern internet services we're relying on were already there back in 1994. Aside from much slicker devices, much higher bandwidth, much broader reach and a few new things around the edges, how much change have we actually seen? I'm of course being a bit facetious - speed, convenience, reach are all very important. But when it comes right down to core "mind blowing" new tech, how much have we actually improved on 1994?

prng2021 4y ago
Dynamic websites is a core idea of the modern internet and that concept did not exist in 1994 internet. JavaScript did not exist. Modern internet is also real-time and largely community driven. Even the notion of these did not exist in 1994 internet. Websockets did not exist. Social networks did not exist. Video conferencing did not exist. Collaborative document editing did not exist. The ideas of wearables and always connected devices (smart watches, speakers, thermostats, lights, etc) did not exist in 1994. The idea that you could create virtual worlds, ie a metaverse, where anyone and everyone could interact by talking and even manipulating objects in the virtual world did not exist in 1994. The idea of aggregating user behavior across every connected device they use, site they visit, physical location they visit, and generating a prediction of their likes/dislikes and future behavior in order to tailor the actual user experience to each individual (targeted advertising, your personal google search results, etc) is a mind blowing core idea of the modern internet which did not exist in 1994.
- ctoth 4y ago
  > Dynamic websites is a core idea of the modern internet and that concept did not exist in 1994 internet. CGI and other forms of dynamicity absolutely existed in 1994[0]. > JavaScript did not exist. IT just needed 1 more year! > Modern internet is also real-time and largely community driven. Even the notion of these did not exist in 1994 internet. Check out MUDs and MOOs. Lambda was 3 years old in 1994. Wired called online virtual worlds "the addiction of the '90s[1]." > Websockets did not exist. But Berkeley sockets did (although you might have had to do some tinkering with Winsock on Windows!) , and I'm curious what you can do over a web socket that you can't do over a traditional socket. > Social networks did not exist. MUDs and mOOs again. > Video conferencing did not exist. Intel actually released a "kit" to enable this on regular Windows PCs in 1994. Cost a pretty penny though[2]! >Collaborative document editing did not exist. The first instance of a collaborative real-time editor was demonstrated by Douglas Engelbart in 1968, in The Mother of All Demos. Widely available implementations of the concept took decades to appear. A piece of software called Instant Update was released for the classic Mac OS in 1991 from ON Technology[3]. > The ideas of wearables and always connected devices (smart watches, speakers, thermostats, lights, etc) did not exist in 1994. Proto wearables absolutely existed in 1994[4]. X10 was developed in 1975 by Pico Electronics of Glenrothes, Scotland, in order to allow remote control of home devices and appliances. It was pretty cool, too, the modules had big honkin relays in them and would go 'clonk' when you switched them! > The idea that you could create virtual worlds, ie a metaverse, where anyone and everyone could interact by talking and even manipulating objects in the virtual world did not exist in 1994. Seriously though, check out what LambdaMOO and similar things were[5][6]. > The idea of aggregating user behavior across every connected device they use, site they visit, physical location they visit, and generating a prediction of their likes/dislikes and future behavior in order to tailor the actual user experience to each individual (targeted advertising, your personal google search results, etc) is a mind blowing core idea of the modern internet which did not exist in 1994. Now this, you're right about. Personally I could 1000% do without. [0]: 1993: CGI Scripts and Early Server-Side Web Programming. https://webdevelopmenthistory.com/1993-cgi-scripts-and-early-server-side-web-programming/ https://webdevelopmenthistory.com/1993-cgi-scripts-and-early... [1]: Johnny Manhattan Meets the Furry Muckers. https://www.wired.com/1994/03/muds-3/ https://www.wired.com/1994/03/muds-3/ [2]: Intel to Unveil Kit for Video Conferencing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1994/01/25/intel-to-unveil-kit-for-video-conferencing/cf8a17c8-7887-49a1-a018-20cc863be162/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1994/01/25/i... [3]: Collaborative real-time editor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor [4]: The 1994 Smartwatch That Syncs with a CRT. https://blog.adafruit.com/2022/03/16/the-1994-smartwatch-that-syncs-with-a-crt-wearablewednesday/ https://blog.adafruit.com/2022/03/16/the-1994-smartwatch-tha... [5]: Virtual(ly) Law: The Emergence of Law in LambdaMOO. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1083-6101.1996.tb00185.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1083-6101... [6]: Fly Me To the MOO: Adventures in Textual Reality. http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9405/moo.html http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9405/moo.html
  - prng2021 4y ago
    If you’re going to frame things like that, the internet itself wasn’t revolutionary at all. It was merely combining various decades old technologies, working proof of concepts, and research papers. Do you also believe smartphones are merely an evolution of the first mobile phone from 1973?
    - ctoth 4y ago
      This comment thread started when you pushed back against someone who said: > when it comes right down to core "mind blowing" new tech, how much have we actually improved on 1994? You provided examples of core ideas that you thought did not exist in 1994, I showed you how several of them absolutely did. If I had to make a list of core technologies that didn't exist in 1994, it might consist of things like CRISPR-Cas9, deep neural networks, electronic cigarettes, self-driving cars, personalized genetics, artificial meat. Stuff that had either not been conceived of or required technology that didn't exist at the time. Even then, you can find precursors to all of those things since tech development is path-dependent. But seriously, dynamic websites and online social communities and the like existed then :) As for smartphones there's a pretty clear lineage that includes early bag phones, pagers, primitive handhelds, Nokia bricks, The Danger Hiptop/Sidekick, Blackberry, and so on. Check out this ad campaign from 1993[0]: [0]: AT&T - 1993 "You Will" Ad Campaign https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvZ-667CEdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvZ-667CEdo
      - prng2021 4y ago
        Of course there’s a precursor to all technologies. Of course smart phones have a clear lineage. Of course everything in existence has a precursor and lineage. I stand by everything in my original reply. The modern video conferencing tools, collaboration tools, dynamic websites, etc absolutely could not have been made with 1994 technology. I remember that time period well and there were so many revolutionary technologies and ideas missing. With all the knowledge you have today, could you go back to 1994 and recreate a Facebook or YouTube, serving 1B+ users with real-time interactivity using CGI and Berkeley sockets? No, that’s just laughably absurd.

prng2021 4y ago

Dynamic websites is a core idea of the modern internet and that concept did not exist in 1994 internet. JavaScript did not exist. Modern internet is also real-time and largely community driven. Even the notion of these did not exist in 1994 internet. Websockets did not exist. Social networks did not exist. Video conferencing did not exist. Collaborative document editing did not exist. The ideas of wearables and always connected devices (smart watches, speakers, thermostats, lights, etc) did not exist in 1994. The idea that you could create virtual worlds, ie a metaverse, where anyone and everyone could interact by talking and even manipulating objects in the virtual world did not exist in 1994. The idea of aggregating user behavior across every connected device they use, site they visit, physical location they visit, and generating a prediction of their likes/dislikes and future behavior in order to tailor the actual user experience to each individual (targeted advertising, your personal google search results, etc) is a mind blowing core idea of the modern internet which did not exist in 1994.

ctoth 4y ago
> Dynamic websites is a core idea of the modern internet and that concept did not exist in 1994 internet. CGI and other forms of dynamicity absolutely existed in 1994[0]. > JavaScript did not exist. IT just needed 1 more year! > Modern internet is also real-time and largely community driven. Even the notion of these did not exist in 1994 internet. Check out MUDs and MOOs. Lambda was 3 years old in 1994. Wired called online virtual worlds "the addiction of the '90s[1]." > Websockets did not exist. But Berkeley sockets did (although you might have had to do some tinkering with Winsock on Windows!) , and I'm curious what you can do over a web socket that you can't do over a traditional socket. > Social networks did not exist. MUDs and mOOs again. > Video conferencing did not exist. Intel actually released a "kit" to enable this on regular Windows PCs in 1994. Cost a pretty penny though[2]! >Collaborative document editing did not exist. The first instance of a collaborative real-time editor was demonstrated by Douglas Engelbart in 1968, in The Mother of All Demos. Widely available implementations of the concept took decades to appear. A piece of software called Instant Update was released for the classic Mac OS in 1991 from ON Technology[3]. > The ideas of wearables and always connected devices (smart watches, speakers, thermostats, lights, etc) did not exist in 1994. Proto wearables absolutely existed in 1994[4]. X10 was developed in 1975 by Pico Electronics of Glenrothes, Scotland, in order to allow remote control of home devices and appliances. It was pretty cool, too, the modules had big honkin relays in them and would go 'clonk' when you switched them! > The idea that you could create virtual worlds, ie a metaverse, where anyone and everyone could interact by talking and even manipulating objects in the virtual world did not exist in 1994. Seriously though, check out what LambdaMOO and similar things were[5][6]. > The idea of aggregating user behavior across every connected device they use, site they visit, physical location they visit, and generating a prediction of their likes/dislikes and future behavior in order to tailor the actual user experience to each individual (targeted advertising, your personal google search results, etc) is a mind blowing core idea of the modern internet which did not exist in 1994. Now this, you're right about. Personally I could 1000% do without. [0]: 1993: CGI Scripts and Early Server-Side Web Programming. https://webdevelopmenthistory.com/1993-cgi-scripts-and-early-server-side-web-programming/ https://webdevelopmenthistory.com/1993-cgi-scripts-and-early... [1]: Johnny Manhattan Meets the Furry Muckers. https://www.wired.com/1994/03/muds-3/ https://www.wired.com/1994/03/muds-3/ [2]: Intel to Unveil Kit for Video Conferencing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1994/01/25/intel-to-unveil-kit-for-video-conferencing/cf8a17c8-7887-49a1-a018-20cc863be162/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1994/01/25/i... [3]: Collaborative real-time editor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor [4]: The 1994 Smartwatch That Syncs with a CRT. https://blog.adafruit.com/2022/03/16/the-1994-smartwatch-that-syncs-with-a-crt-wearablewednesday/ https://blog.adafruit.com/2022/03/16/the-1994-smartwatch-tha... [5]: Virtual(ly) Law: The Emergence of Law in LambdaMOO. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1083-6101.1996.tb00185.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1083-6101... [6]: Fly Me To the MOO: Adventures in Textual Reality. http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9405/moo.html http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9405/moo.html
- prng2021 4y ago
  If you’re going to frame things like that, the internet itself wasn’t revolutionary at all. It was merely combining various decades old technologies, working proof of concepts, and research papers. Do you also believe smartphones are merely an evolution of the first mobile phone from 1973?
  - ctoth 4y ago
    This comment thread started when you pushed back against someone who said: > when it comes right down to core "mind blowing" new tech, how much have we actually improved on 1994? You provided examples of core ideas that you thought did not exist in 1994, I showed you how several of them absolutely did. If I had to make a list of core technologies that didn't exist in 1994, it might consist of things like CRISPR-Cas9, deep neural networks, electronic cigarettes, self-driving cars, personalized genetics, artificial meat. Stuff that had either not been conceived of or required technology that didn't exist at the time. Even then, you can find precursors to all of those things since tech development is path-dependent. But seriously, dynamic websites and online social communities and the like existed then :) As for smartphones there's a pretty clear lineage that includes early bag phones, pagers, primitive handhelds, Nokia bricks, The Danger Hiptop/Sidekick, Blackberry, and so on. Check out this ad campaign from 1993[0]: [0]: AT&T - 1993 "You Will" Ad Campaign https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvZ-667CEdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvZ-667CEdo
    - prng2021 4y ago
      Of course there’s a precursor to all technologies. Of course smart phones have a clear lineage. Of course everything in existence has a precursor and lineage. I stand by everything in my original reply. The modern video conferencing tools, collaboration tools, dynamic websites, etc absolutely could not have been made with 1994 technology. I remember that time period well and there were so many revolutionary technologies and ideas missing. With all the knowledge you have today, could you go back to 1994 and recreate a Facebook or YouTube, serving 1B+ users with real-time interactivity using CGI and Berkeley sockets? No, that’s just laughably absurd.