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Our third PM in 6 years. Yet zero new ideas, zero ability to think beyond the immediate crisis and zero ability to push through any hard choices. Things have

Our third PM in 6 years. Yet zero new ideas, zero ability to think beyond the immediate crisis and zero ability to push through any hard choices. Things have to get worse for the UK, so people wake up, so we get a marginally less shit government.

MrMan 4y ago
beg to get back into the EU before UK is just Wales and England with no GDP.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  We should, though I don't think Scotland or NI will be allowed to leave this shitty party, "misery loves company" is the UK motto. Realistically, we have to wait at least another decade for a generation of crazies to die off. Then we can try and be a country again. Not many people know, but when we first tried to join the EU (then the European Communities), our application was veto'd twice by France. Having been proven right about us, I am not sure they'd let us in again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union#:~:text=The%20UK's%20applications%20to%20join,the%20British%20around%20the%20table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t....
  - mywittyname 4y ago
    I'm not sure the British people would be willing to accept the sorts of concessions EU members are likely to impose on them for re-entry. Given the mess that was Brexit, I could see, at minimum some sort of financial penalty paid directly by the British people (since they would be voting to leave) and a forced adoption of the Euro. But who knows what the next 20 years holds for the Eurozone.
    - LatteLazy 4y ago
      The British people basically divide into 2 groups: productive younger (<40) workers who are getting fucked in every imaginable way, and older entitled idiots. Sooner or later the older ones will die out, and the idiots will always be there but won't have a majority anymore. Only the second group give a shit about nationalism and voted for Brexit (and only because they knew THEY would not pay for it). The other half of us not only don't care, but certainly don't see why we should pay for it. God I wish I was young enough to emigrate easily.
      - rcarr 4y ago
        Ireland is the easiest one and one I’m seriously considering. You can move and work visa free as a UK citizen, and after you’ve lived there for 5 years you can claim Irish citizenship. EU passport back and can go wherever you want. I quite like the Irish craic so I might end up making it home for good. Handy if you’ve got roots in the UK as well because you’re not far away, especially if you live near Dublin which has flights to most major cities in the UK for £20 to £30. Only problem is they’ve got an even worse housing crisis and cost of living crisis than we do. Significantly more expensive than even Scandinavia.
        timellis-smith 4y ago
        It does strike me as more than a little ironic that you are advocating to moving to a country with famously low historical corporate tax rates[1], and which has a similar tax rate to the UK without the (just removed) 45% tier[2]. on a thread which is about the British government lowering tax rates. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/ireland-poised-to-drop-125-tax-rate-in-oecd-global-pact https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/ireland-poised... [2] https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/tax-relief-charts/index.aspx https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-e...
        imtringued 4y ago
        It's an English speaking country. If I were a UK citizen I would look at Australia or USA if Ireland doesn't pan out.
        rcarr 4y ago
        Lot easier said than done. If you‘re self taught and don’t have a degree it’s very, very difficult to get into either. You need to accumulate six years of experience in one of their in demand occupations to even be considered.
        LatteLazy 4y ago
        You're not wrong, but I would not compare UK and Irish corporation tax rates. In the UK, any company that is publicly traded, multinational or larger than a few million in revenue a year pays a different set of taxes at a much lower rate. What we call "corporation tax" is really more like "small company and self employed people using limited liability" tax. It's only called corporation tax for historic reasons. Just fyi. Most people don't realise this, including most Brits. It's something if an in joke for accountants and people who own LTDs.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      > I'm not sure the British people would be willing to accept the sorts of concessions EU members are likely to impose on them for re-entry There won't be any concessions. For there won't be any reentry of the UK into Europe. Its impossible after all the vile ire that was directeda gainst Europe and Europeans by the British media, establishment and the very Brexit Britainers. That vile attitude is recorded on the Internet forever and it will never go away. And a delirium like 'Don't talk about it anymore' like how the Brexit Britainers seem to push inside the UK these days don't fly in Europe. People don't have the memory of a fish and they certainly won't forget how they were treated. https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/24/inenglish/1477303145_005915.html https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/24/inenglish/14773...
  - rcarr 4y ago
    It was in the news yesterday that the amount of people identifying as Catholics has overtaken Protestants for the first time on record in Northern Ireland. I don’t think it will be too long in the overall scheme of things until they rejoin Ireland, especially if Scotland can make a break for it first. If things get worse over the next two years I think Sturgeon’s going to have a really strong mandate for independence, especially if Tories somehow manage to get re-elected. Will be harder for her if Starmer gets in.
jfengel 4y ago
I believe you're stuck with your current government for another couple of years. Unless they decide to call early elections, though polling suggests that the current government would lose an election called today. It would be great if people decided over those next couple of years that they deserved a better government, though I've found that in a crisis people often decide to double down on what they've always believed. If they're not getting what they want, it's because they're not doing the thing hard enough -- usually because their political opponents have done something. They may well change governments in two years, not so much because people "wake up" but because enough people decide they're fed up and stay home. The others then get their chance, and I hope they spend the next two years preparing a genuine solution. And good luck with that, since the present government has spent a very long time saddling them with an untenable situation.

MrMan 4y ago

beg to get back into the EU before UK is just Wales and England with no GDP.

LatteLazy 4y ago
We should, though I don't think Scotland or NI will be allowed to leave this shitty party, "misery loves company" is the UK motto. Realistically, we have to wait at least another decade for a generation of crazies to die off. Then we can try and be a country again. Not many people know, but when we first tried to join the EU (then the European Communities), our application was veto'd twice by France. Having been proven right about us, I am not sure they'd let us in again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union#:~:text=The%20UK's%20applications%20to%20join,the%20British%20around%20the%20table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t....
- mywittyname 4y ago
  I'm not sure the British people would be willing to accept the sorts of concessions EU members are likely to impose on them for re-entry. Given the mess that was Brexit, I could see, at minimum some sort of financial penalty paid directly by the British people (since they would be voting to leave) and a forced adoption of the Euro. But who knows what the next 20 years holds for the Eurozone.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    The British people basically divide into 2 groups: productive younger (<40) workers who are getting fucked in every imaginable way, and older entitled idiots. Sooner or later the older ones will die out, and the idiots will always be there but won't have a majority anymore. Only the second group give a shit about nationalism and voted for Brexit (and only because they knew THEY would not pay for it). The other half of us not only don't care, but certainly don't see why we should pay for it. God I wish I was young enough to emigrate easily.
    - rcarr 4y ago
      Ireland is the easiest one and one I’m seriously considering. You can move and work visa free as a UK citizen, and after you’ve lived there for 5 years you can claim Irish citizenship. EU passport back and can go wherever you want. I quite like the Irish craic so I might end up making it home for good. Handy if you’ve got roots in the UK as well because you’re not far away, especially if you live near Dublin which has flights to most major cities in the UK for £20 to £30. Only problem is they’ve got an even worse housing crisis and cost of living crisis than we do. Significantly more expensive than even Scandinavia.
      - timellis-smith 4y ago
        It does strike me as more than a little ironic that you are advocating to moving to a country with famously low historical corporate tax rates[1], and which has a similar tax rate to the UK without the (just removed) 45% tier[2]. on a thread which is about the British government lowering tax rates. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/ireland-poised-to-drop-125-tax-rate-in-oecd-global-pact https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/ireland-poised... [2] https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/tax-relief-charts/index.aspx https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-e...
        imtringued 4y ago
        It's an English speaking country. If I were a UK citizen I would look at Australia or USA if Ireland doesn't pan out.
        rcarr 4y ago
        Lot easier said than done. If you‘re self taught and don’t have a degree it’s very, very difficult to get into either. You need to accumulate six years of experience in one of their in demand occupations to even be considered.
        LatteLazy 4y ago
        You're not wrong, but I would not compare UK and Irish corporation tax rates. In the UK, any company that is publicly traded, multinational or larger than a few million in revenue a year pays a different set of taxes at a much lower rate. What we call "corporation tax" is really more like "small company and self employed people using limited liability" tax. It's only called corporation tax for historic reasons. Just fyi. Most people don't realise this, including most Brits. It's something if an in joke for accountants and people who own LTDs.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > I'm not sure the British people would be willing to accept the sorts of concessions EU members are likely to impose on them for re-entry There won't be any concessions. For there won't be any reentry of the UK into Europe. Its impossible after all the vile ire that was directeda gainst Europe and Europeans by the British media, establishment and the very Brexit Britainers. That vile attitude is recorded on the Internet forever and it will never go away. And a delirium like 'Don't talk about it anymore' like how the Brexit Britainers seem to push inside the UK these days don't fly in Europe. People don't have the memory of a fish and they certainly won't forget how they were treated. https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/24/inenglish/1477303145_005915.html https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/24/inenglish/14773...
- rcarr 4y ago
  It was in the news yesterday that the amount of people identifying as Catholics has overtaken Protestants for the first time on record in Northern Ireland. I don’t think it will be too long in the overall scheme of things until they rejoin Ireland, especially if Scotland can make a break for it first. If things get worse over the next two years I think Sturgeon’s going to have a really strong mandate for independence, especially if Tories somehow manage to get re-elected. Will be harder for her if Starmer gets in.

jfengel 4y ago

I believe you're stuck with your current government for another couple of years. Unless they decide to call early elections, though polling suggests that the current government would lose an election called today. It would be great if people decided over those next couple of years that they deserved a better government, though I've found that in a crisis people often decide to double down on what they've always believed. If they're not getting what they want, it's because they're not doing the thing hard enough -- usually because their political opponents have done something. They may well change governments in two years, not so much because people "wake up" but because enough people decide they're fed up and stay home. The others then get their chance, and I hope they spend the next two years preparing a genuine solution. And good luck with that, since the present government has spent a very long time saddling them with an untenable situation.