4 ms·

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you coul

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that someone would have proven it technically by now instead of relying on these types of self experiment and anecdotes, especially given how commonly this is touted.

titaniczero 4y ago
And don’t forget the battery. A mic recording 24/7 would drain the battery much faster and would not go unnoticed unless specialized hardware is used like the one for “hey siri” and “ok google”.
- netsectoday 4y ago
  Doesn't the Facebook app drain your battery?
  - titaniczero 4y ago
    Try any voice recording app for a few hours, now use the facebook app for the same number of hours. The impact on battery life of a mic actively recording alone is very noticeable, so noticeable that your phone has a special chip just to recognize patterns similar to “hey siri”.
    - netsectoday 4y ago
      - titaniczero 4y ago
        > This way too I can troll people on the internet when they suspect this is happening and I can say "bUt ThE bAtTeRy LiFe!" to defend Meta: my corporate overlord business daddy. Please, stop with the sarcasm. Okey, let’s say they manage to record us without a huge impact on our battery life. Now, how do you send these recordings or even the extracted keywords from a popular app, a client installed on devices controlled by the users and susceptible to reverse engineering and network traffic analysis without anyone noticing it? It’s just too much risk and they don’t even need it, see my relevant reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950204#32953216 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950204#32953216.
        netsectoday 4y ago
        Great question! I'd love a peek at their source code to figure out these answers too! I swear that comment is sarcasm free.
    - Melatonic 4y ago
      It would not need to record high quality audio and could maybe even take advantage of that same chip? Just thinking out loud here - smaller, crappier audio would also be easier to send back unnoticed (or instead of even recording audio it could be transcribing on the fly to a text file using something super basic and easy with low accuracy)
tonmoy 4y ago
The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background
- netsectoday 4y ago
  It was an iPhone, and there is no indication from the phone when the mic is recording.
  - Melatonic 4y ago
    Android has a notification now when the mic is recording and has had the ability to deny microphone and lots of other access for a long time now. Thankfully it sounds like iOS is catching up
- tadfisher 4y ago
  That's not possible without permissions these days, same as iOS. In Android 13, background processes have no mic or camera access whatsoever.
- procinct 4y ago
  > My wife and MIL sitting at the table talking about a unique topic with an iPhone running Facebook sitting in front of them They explicitly said they were using an iPhone?
netsectoday 4y ago
> Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? No. Just tested this out, zero indication that the mic is hot on a recent iPhone with up-to-date software when recording a voice memo. Edit: There ya go... downvotes for saying the iPhone has no indicator when you record audio.
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Works on my iPhone. https://litter.catbox.moe/cpvpr8.jpg https://litter.catbox.moe/cpvpr8.jpg
  - netsectoday 4y ago
    The screen was off when the event happened... 1) Does your iPhone still record audio when the screen is off? 2) Can you see the audio indicator when the screen is off? 3) If a background app starts then stops recording audio while the screen is off, would you have an indicator that it recorded audio?
    - Hamuko 4y ago
      Have you tried looking at the screen while using the Facebook app? Also, I feel like the goal posts are moving quite fast in one direction.
      - netsectoday 4y ago
        Goal posts? Is this a competition? The phone was sitting between two people having a conversation, one of them "swiped it open" meaning it was off to begin with, then was immediately displayed an ad for that conversation, and upon hearing this the tech-savvy person in the house understood what happened, confirmed it with the mic access to facebook in the settings, and then disabled the behavior.
        Hamuko 4y ago
        >Goal posts? Is this a competition? Considering the original claim was "zero indication that the mic is hot" and now it's "zero indication that the mic is hot if the screen is off", I'd say that the goal post has moved considerably. But if you want to know if Facebook is listening to you through the iPhone microphone, you should probably look at the screen for the indicator. iOS apps can't start recording on their own in the background, there's no API for that. If they are listening to you, they'd have to start the audio session in the foreground, which would allow you to see the indicator. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/65604 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/65604 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70562929/how-to-start-audio-recording-when-app-running-on-background https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70562929/how-to-start-au... (Unless you believe that Facebook is using some kind of a private system API for this and is passing through the App Store checks)

titaniczero 4y ago

And don’t forget the battery. A mic recording 24/7 would drain the battery much faster and would not go unnoticed unless specialized hardware is used like the one for “hey siri” and “ok google”.

netsectoday 4y ago
Doesn't the Facebook app drain your battery?
- titaniczero 4y ago
  Try any voice recording app for a few hours, now use the facebook app for the same number of hours. The impact on battery life of a mic actively recording alone is very noticeable, so noticeable that your phone has a special chip just to recognize patterns similar to “hey siri”.
  - netsectoday 4y ago
    - titaniczero 4y ago
      > This way too I can troll people on the internet when they suspect this is happening and I can say "bUt ThE bAtTeRy LiFe!" to defend Meta: my corporate overlord business daddy. Please, stop with the sarcasm. Okey, let’s say they manage to record us without a huge impact on our battery life. Now, how do you send these recordings or even the extracted keywords from a popular app, a client installed on devices controlled by the users and susceptible to reverse engineering and network traffic analysis without anyone noticing it? It’s just too much risk and they don’t even need it, see my relevant reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950204#32953216 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950204#32953216.
      - netsectoday 4y ago
        Great question! I'd love a peek at their source code to figure out these answers too! I swear that comment is sarcasm free.
  - Melatonic 4y ago
    It would not need to record high quality audio and could maybe even take advantage of that same chip? Just thinking out loud here - smaller, crappier audio would also be easier to send back unnoticed (or instead of even recording audio it could be transcribing on the fly to a text file using something super basic and easy with low accuracy)

tonmoy 4y ago

The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background

netsectoday 4y ago
It was an iPhone, and there is no indication from the phone when the mic is recording.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Android has a notification now when the mic is recording and has had the ability to deny microphone and lots of other access for a long time now. Thankfully it sounds like iOS is catching up
tadfisher 4y ago
That's not possible without permissions these days, same as iOS. In Android 13, background processes have no mic or camera access whatsoever.
procinct 4y ago
> My wife and MIL sitting at the table talking about a unique topic with an iPhone running Facebook sitting in front of them They explicitly said they were using an iPhone?

netsectoday 4y ago

> Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? No. Just tested this out, zero indication that the mic is hot on a recent iPhone with up-to-date software when recording a voice memo. Edit: There ya go... downvotes for saying the iPhone has no indicator when you record audio.

Hamuko 4y ago
Works on my iPhone. https://litter.catbox.moe/cpvpr8.jpg https://litter.catbox.moe/cpvpr8.jpg
- netsectoday 4y ago
  The screen was off when the event happened... 1) Does your iPhone still record audio when the screen is off? 2) Can you see the audio indicator when the screen is off? 3) If a background app starts then stops recording audio while the screen is off, would you have an indicator that it recorded audio?
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Have you tried looking at the screen while using the Facebook app? Also, I feel like the goal posts are moving quite fast in one direction.
    - netsectoday 4y ago
      Goal posts? Is this a competition? The phone was sitting between two people having a conversation, one of them "swiped it open" meaning it was off to begin with, then was immediately displayed an ad for that conversation, and upon hearing this the tech-savvy person in the house understood what happened, confirmed it with the mic access to facebook in the settings, and then disabled the behavior.
      - Hamuko 4y ago
        >Goal posts? Is this a competition? Considering the original claim was "zero indication that the mic is hot" and now it's "zero indication that the mic is hot if the screen is off", I'd say that the goal post has moved considerably. But if you want to know if Facebook is listening to you through the iPhone microphone, you should probably look at the screen for the indicator. iOS apps can't start recording on their own in the background, there's no API for that. If they are listening to you, they'd have to start the audio session in the foreground, which would allow you to see the indicator. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/65604 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/65604 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70562929/how-to-start-audio-recording-when-app-running-on-background https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70562929/how-to-start-au... (Unless you believe that Facebook is using some kind of a private system API for this and is passing through the App Store checks)