5 ms·

Everybody wants to talk about how bad the sweatshop is. Nobody wants to talk about the poverty that was so bad, people jumped at the chance to work in the sweat

Everybody wants to talk about how bad the sweatshop is. Nobody wants to talk about the poverty that was so bad, people jumped at the chance to work in the sweatshop.

boh 4y ago
Yes they do. They love to talk about that and do all the time. It helps make exploiting poor people with limited protections seem moral. Don't forget to mention how employing a person to work 16 hours a day making clothes or a phone helps feed their family.
- XorNot 4y ago
  "that child worker could be an important income source to help feed their family" I've heard that in polite settings when I was younger, and my absolute rage at it has only grown.
- civilized 4y ago
  I share your moral objections to exploitative working conditions. But most of us aren't doing those people any good. Work opportunities, on the other hand -- even exploitative ones -- do seem to be doing them good, if they are voluntarily choosing to do them. I think that should humble and temper all of our moral sensibilities a little, when we are attempting to judge a development like this as Good or Bad. Here is something doing good for poor people, and here we are, doing nothing for those poor people, judging it. That feels off to me. If this was Stripe Slavery, I would have no problem calling it Bad. I don't support slavery. But empowering people to engage in voluntary working arrangements -- it can be abused, sure, but Bad? I'm skeptical.
  - vore 4y ago
    drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,
    - civilized 4y ago
      Oh jeez, I quit Twitter and it's followed me here.
- jimmySixDOF 4y ago
  I have worked off and on with an overseas engineering company. The department I work through has a secretary who left his South Asian home and family to work there in basic accomodations sending home every overtime hour he could get his hands on. One of the best days I can remember in an office is being introduced to his son the recent engineering graduate who just joined the company. Following the success of that young mans career as he went to better and better jobs makes me smile and shields me a little from the over woke virtue signaling brigade of people who probably mean well but tend to let their outrage at a problem get in the way of actually fixing it.
  - vore 4y ago
    Your solution to fixing the problem is... hoping you have a successful child?
    - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
      not sure where I proposed a solution but if there is one, I can tell you it will not involve crying out exploitation when someone offers an impoverished person the opportunity to pull themselves up somewhere better in life, just because you think it's unjust for that poverty they live in to exist in the first place but yet also have no working alternative.
      - vore 4y ago
        Sidestepping your culture war flaming, this is just a race to the bottom. Are we supposed to give employers are free pass to work someone to the bone just because they're poor? Surely we can also acknowledge that, that while it's unfortunate that having a sweatshop job is often better than no job, employers should not treat their employees like shit either.
        jimmySixDOF 4y ago
        agreed.
    - 4y ago
vore 4y ago
Paul Krugman literally wrote a notorious article about this. https://slate.com/business/1997/03/in-praise-of-cheap-labor.html https://slate.com/business/1997/03/in-praise-of-cheap-labor....
- hef19898 4y ago
  The more I think about the current state of things, and the more I learn about the ugly truth behind the industrial revolution prior to workers rights and such, the more I understand how Marx came to his conclusions. And why the communist movement developed. Last time, the industrial revolution ate the artisans. Then automation ate the blue collar jobs in the industrialized world. It seem digitalization is going to eat the white collar jobs, kind of starting, it seems, with the lower level dev jobs that helped to bring this whole thing about in the first place. Early on it was workers forming unions that brought change about, not sure if white collar employees, currently being highly paid, will do the same thing.

Everybody wants to talk about how bad the sweatshop is. Nobody wants to talk about the poverty that was so bad, people jumped at the chance to work in the sweatshop.

boh 4y ago

Yes they do. They love to talk about that and do all the time. It helps make exploiting poor people with limited protections seem moral. Don't forget to mention how employing a person to work 16 hours a day making clothes or a phone helps feed their family.

XorNot 4y ago
"that child worker could be an important income source to help feed their family" I've heard that in polite settings when I was younger, and my absolute rage at it has only grown.
civilized 4y ago
I share your moral objections to exploitative working conditions. But most of us aren't doing those people any good. Work opportunities, on the other hand -- even exploitative ones -- do seem to be doing them good, if they are voluntarily choosing to do them. I think that should humble and temper all of our moral sensibilities a little, when we are attempting to judge a development like this as Good or Bad. Here is something doing good for poor people, and here we are, doing nothing for those poor people, judging it. That feels off to me. If this was Stripe Slavery, I would have no problem calling it Bad. I don't support slavery. But empowering people to engage in voluntary working arrangements -- it can be abused, sure, but Bad? I'm skeptical.
- vore 4y ago
  drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,
  - civilized 4y ago
    Oh jeez, I quit Twitter and it's followed me here.
jimmySixDOF 4y ago
I have worked off and on with an overseas engineering company. The department I work through has a secretary who left his South Asian home and family to work there in basic accomodations sending home every overtime hour he could get his hands on. One of the best days I can remember in an office is being introduced to his son the recent engineering graduate who just joined the company. Following the success of that young mans career as he went to better and better jobs makes me smile and shields me a little from the over woke virtue signaling brigade of people who probably mean well but tend to let their outrage at a problem get in the way of actually fixing it.
- vore 4y ago
  Your solution to fixing the problem is... hoping you have a successful child?
  - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
    not sure where I proposed a solution but if there is one, I can tell you it will not involve crying out exploitation when someone offers an impoverished person the opportunity to pull themselves up somewhere better in life, just because you think it's unjust for that poverty they live in to exist in the first place but yet also have no working alternative.
    - vore 4y ago
      Sidestepping your culture war flaming, this is just a race to the bottom. Are we supposed to give employers are free pass to work someone to the bone just because they're poor? Surely we can also acknowledge that, that while it's unfortunate that having a sweatshop job is often better than no job, employers should not treat their employees like shit either.
      - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
        agreed.
  - 4y ago

vore 4y ago

Paul Krugman literally wrote a notorious article about this. https://slate.com/business/1997/03/in-praise-of-cheap-labor.html https://slate.com/business/1997/03/in-praise-of-cheap-labor....

hef19898 4y ago
The more I think about the current state of things, and the more I learn about the ugly truth behind the industrial revolution prior to workers rights and such, the more I understand how Marx came to his conclusions. And why the communist movement developed. Last time, the industrial revolution ate the artisans. Then automation ate the blue collar jobs in the industrialized world. It seem digitalization is going to eat the white collar jobs, kind of starting, it seems, with the lower level dev jobs that helped to bring this whole thing about in the first place. Early on it was workers forming unions that brought change about, not sure if white collar employees, currently being highly paid, will do the same thing.