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"It's not as simple as simply doing a heel lift or raising your legs when you're sitting or shaking your leg or fidgeting. It's a very specific movement that's

"It's not as simple as simply doing a heel lift or raising your legs when you're sitting or shaking your leg or fidgeting. It's a very specific movement that's designed where we use some technologies that aren't necessarily available to the public unless you're a scientist and you know how to use it." This has a bit of a 'smell' that I can't quite put my finger on.

dqpb 4y ago
They're saying it's difficult to explain how to isolate the muscle. For example, two simple ways to lift only your heel from a sitting position are: 1. Push down with the ball if you foot 2. Lift up with your hip/quad They look the same, but are completely different. Do either of them activate the Soleus? Do neither of them?
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  ^ This. Its not snake oil, its a statement from a scientist who attaches musculoskeletal monitoring equipment to people on a regular basis and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    > and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command. "Basically terrible". It took me a really long time to work out what exactly the fuck "activate your core" meant. Never mind "activate this muscle you have never thought about before".
- Someone 4y ago
  #2 I would call a pull up or lift up, not a push up, so I assume it’s more like #1.
tyingq 4y ago
Yeah, there's an implied "and if I identify for you the simple way to do this yourself without equipment, my business model goes poof...so I'll just identify two or three things that don't leverage that muscle".
digdugdirk 4y ago
The actual quote from the article - “The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits,” said Hamilton. This is a statement around how to activate the soleus itself, and its an accurate statement for the majority of the population. It's an odd muscle to target, as we're generally more used to using our gastrocnemius muscles when plantar-flexing our ankle joint. Sitting helps target the soleus (which is why you might find a seated calf-raise machine next to a standing calf-raise machine at the gym) but it still requires a strong mind-muscle connection to activate without having the gastrocnemius take over. Having some electrodes to measure and display specifically targeted muscle output would help, and this is likely what he's referring to in the article.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  I agree that it would help. But I’m pretty sure you can just touch the lower, outer part of your ankle (where it’s documented in the picture) to find out if you’re flexing the right one. Thinking about pointing my toes helped. I think people are right the difficulty is oversold.
  - digdugdirk 4y ago
    The trick with the soleus is that its underneath the gastroc. And in many people's musculoskeletal structures, its entirely underneath the gastroc - meaning your trick won't help. Combine that with some compensatory activation of the gastroc during this movement and people won't be able to effectively train themselves to get the full effect of what the researchers are going for here - prolonged duration soleus activation. I'm not saying they couldn't have done a better job explaining how to do this at home, but its a surprisingly difficult thing to explain to someone face-to-face when you're a personal trainer. Let alone when as a scientist when you only get a short blurb to convey information about your latest research study.
petesergeant 4y ago
Also: "It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits" Great, sounds patent-able!
peppertree 4y ago
In this house we respect the law of thermodynamics!
NotYourLawyer 4y ago
Smells like bullshit garnished with snake oil.
canucker2016 4y ago
Three paragraphs earlier in the article: "So, how do you perform a soleus pushup? In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons." I think that gives the reader enough to replicate the Soleus Pushup - perhaps an indication on where the effort/force is to be emphasized/felt would help. Looking up "heel lift", the Soleus Pushup reads/sounds a lot like a seated heel lift. see https://www.livestrong.com/article/137423-heel-lift-exercises/ https://www.livestrong.com/article/137423-heel-lift-exercise...
irrational 4y ago
Yes, this press release reads like one of those “I know the secret to weight loss that has been lost since ancient times! Just one payment of $29.99 will get you on the path to your ideal beach body!” But, then I noticed this was from an actual university. Huh. And it doesn’t ask for money. And it basically gives the “secret” in the article. But it definitely has that snake oil smell.
Melatonic 4y ago
They also say though that the end goal is to teach people how to do the movement with no equipment. So maybe not so BS
canucker2016 4y ago
from the YouTube video, you can see the movement (positioned at 6 secs into the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=6s Of course, my friend's Chinese grandmother would admonish my friend for doing this movement at the table - evidently she considered the movement to be an indicator for something that shouldn't be mentioned at the dining table.

dqpb 4y ago

They're saying it's difficult to explain how to isolate the muscle. For example, two simple ways to lift only your heel from a sitting position are: 1. Push down with the ball if you foot 2. Lift up with your hip/quad They look the same, but are completely different. Do either of them activate the Soleus? Do neither of them?

digdugdirk 4y ago
^ This. Its not snake oil, its a statement from a scientist who attaches musculoskeletal monitoring equipment to people on a regular basis and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  > and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command. "Basically terrible". It took me a really long time to work out what exactly the fuck "activate your core" meant. Never mind "activate this muscle you have never thought about before".
Someone 4y ago
#2 I would call a pull up or lift up, not a push up, so I assume it’s more like #1.

tyingq 4y ago

Yeah, there's an implied "and if I identify for you the simple way to do this yourself without equipment, my business model goes poof...so I'll just identify two or three things that don't leverage that muscle".

digdugdirk 4y ago

The actual quote from the article - “The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits,” said Hamilton. This is a statement around how to activate the soleus itself, and its an accurate statement for the majority of the population. It's an odd muscle to target, as we're generally more used to using our gastrocnemius muscles when plantar-flexing our ankle joint. Sitting helps target the soleus (which is why you might find a seated calf-raise machine next to a standing calf-raise machine at the gym) but it still requires a strong mind-muscle connection to activate without having the gastrocnemius take over. Having some electrodes to measure and display specifically targeted muscle output would help, and this is likely what he's referring to in the article.

zmgsabst 4y ago
I agree that it would help. But I’m pretty sure you can just touch the lower, outer part of your ankle (where it’s documented in the picture) to find out if you’re flexing the right one. Thinking about pointing my toes helped. I think people are right the difficulty is oversold.
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  The trick with the soleus is that its underneath the gastroc. And in many people's musculoskeletal structures, its entirely underneath the gastroc - meaning your trick won't help. Combine that with some compensatory activation of the gastroc during this movement and people won't be able to effectively train themselves to get the full effect of what the researchers are going for here - prolonged duration soleus activation. I'm not saying they couldn't have done a better job explaining how to do this at home, but its a surprisingly difficult thing to explain to someone face-to-face when you're a personal trainer. Let alone when as a scientist when you only get a short blurb to convey information about your latest research study.

petesergeant 4y ago

Also: "It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits" Great, sounds patent-able!

peppertree 4y ago

In this house we respect the law of thermodynamics!

NotYourLawyer 4y ago

Smells like bullshit garnished with snake oil.

canucker2016 4y ago

Three paragraphs earlier in the article: "So, how do you perform a soleus pushup? In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons." I think that gives the reader enough to replicate the Soleus Pushup - perhaps an indication on where the effort/force is to be emphasized/felt would help. Looking up "heel lift", the Soleus Pushup reads/sounds a lot like a seated heel lift. see https://www.livestrong.com/article/137423-heel-lift-exercises/ https://www.livestrong.com/article/137423-heel-lift-exercise...

irrational 4y ago

Yes, this press release reads like one of those “I know the secret to weight loss that has been lost since ancient times! Just one payment of $29.99 will get you on the path to your ideal beach body!” But, then I noticed this was from an actual university. Huh. And it doesn’t ask for money. And it basically gives the “secret” in the article. But it definitely has that snake oil smell.

Melatonic 4y ago

They also say though that the end goal is to teach people how to do the movement with no equipment. So maybe not so BS

canucker2016 4y ago

from the YouTube video, you can see the movement (positioned at 6 secs into the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=6s Of course, my friend's Chinese grandmother would admonish my friend for doing this movement at the table - evidently she considered the movement to be an indicator for something that shouldn't be mentioned at the dining table.