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Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Being an actual teacher and knowing and talking to many a

Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Being an actual teacher and knowing and talking to many actual teachers, I can tell you that your assertion that teachers didn't support those policies is uninformed. What teachers wanted was for the safety of students and teachers as well. The issues faced were that schools were very short staffed, and it's difficult to keep children safe and to maintain an effective learning environment when half the faculty and staff are out sick. The "keep schools open" crowd often floated a false dichotomy where the option was between schooling as normal or closed schools. Schooling as normal was never a realistic option for many districts with missing faculty and staff. They would say "kids are not susceptible to covid, therefore schools are safe" without any concern about teachers who in fact died due to covid, as happened in my district. Today we're facing a national teacher shortage where those who would have thought about teaching are steering clear of the field, and those currently in it are looking to get out asap. The rhetoric you're displaying here is a large part of the reason why.

ghoward 4y ago
> Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Maybe not, but it's what they did do. For some reason, people mix up intentions and consequences all the time. The intentions may have been good; the consequences were not.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usual. The point is that when teachers are dying and out sick, and the school is running on a skeleton crew, schooling by definition couldn't be business as usual. Who teaches the classes when teachers are out and there are no subs? Who drives the kids to school when there is a shortage of bus drivers? Who keeps them safe when there aren't enough eyes to supervise? These issues were completely sidestepped by the "open schools" advocates, as if they were just minor implementation details and not showstopping complications. I've found that people who are not teachers and who have no idea what it's like to run a school are very quick to pass judgement when it comes to this issue. Usually digging a little deeper it's very easy to find this quickness to blame stems from various political viewpoints rather than any expertise or knowledge about the situation on the ground. Most people I've found blaming teachers like this don't even have any kids in school. Anyway, teachers are the ones on the front line right now trying to fix the problems that children face today due to the pandemic, so please spare me your moralizing about how teachers are abusers and conspired to inflict collective punishment on children. What are you doing to fix the problems?
  - ghoward 4y ago
    I'm referring to the unions, not teachers. And when I have a kid, I will be homeschooling. Please don't assume. Also, I was briefly a bus driver for a school district during COVID. I was disgusted by how the school buses were run, refusing to allow students to board without masks, requiring masks on the drivers when that affected the amount of oxygen to the brain. It was a mess. People in my district tried to protest, including me, but the police refused to let them into school board meetings, which is illegal in my state. If anything, what you're saying feels like you telling me to believe you and not my "lying" eyes.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    >You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usua Person you replied to never said that. Could have been like my kid's school, where the kid/teacher missed a couple weeks but other than that the teachers that didn't die or whatever eventually came back and taught the kids in class in person. >showstopping complications. Well somehow they weren't as my county got hit worst than most and yet somehow my kid still got schooled, just through a private school. Didn't stop the show for those willing to keep the show going. >Most people I've found blaming teachers I definitely don't blame teachers in general. My kids teachers were great. Awesome people. The ones that gave up, and said well thinsg are challenging and I might die or whatever, well that's fine I don't blame them either. Go on and find another profession or whatever, you're not a slave. But I salute the ones who stuck around like my kid's teacher who was willing to adapt and overcome to keep things going so my child didn't get so far behind. >abusers The person you replied to never said teachers are "abusers." It almost sounds like you're arguing against some other person you have beef with, rather than the person who replied to you. Either way I don't know what to tell you. My kid, and her teacher kept going on through COVID in person somehow, so I guess they proved the impossible can actually happen. We lived in our alternate reality where it is possible, and you lived in one where it was a 'showstopper.'
  - nradov 4y ago
    You're presenting a counterfactual. Sweden kept schools open. Very few people died. Why are you not acknowledging that reality?

ghoward 4y ago

> Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Maybe not, but it's what they did do. For some reason, people mix up intentions and consequences all the time. The intentions may have been good; the consequences were not.

ModernMech 4y ago
You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usual. The point is that when teachers are dying and out sick, and the school is running on a skeleton crew, schooling by definition couldn't be business as usual. Who teaches the classes when teachers are out and there are no subs? Who drives the kids to school when there is a shortage of bus drivers? Who keeps them safe when there aren't enough eyes to supervise? These issues were completely sidestepped by the "open schools" advocates, as if they were just minor implementation details and not showstopping complications. I've found that people who are not teachers and who have no idea what it's like to run a school are very quick to pass judgement when it comes to this issue. Usually digging a little deeper it's very easy to find this quickness to blame stems from various political viewpoints rather than any expertise or knowledge about the situation on the ground. Most people I've found blaming teachers like this don't even have any kids in school. Anyway, teachers are the ones on the front line right now trying to fix the problems that children face today due to the pandemic, so please spare me your moralizing about how teachers are abusers and conspired to inflict collective punishment on children. What are you doing to fix the problems?
- ghoward 4y ago
  I'm referring to the unions, not teachers. And when I have a kid, I will be homeschooling. Please don't assume. Also, I was briefly a bus driver for a school district during COVID. I was disgusted by how the school buses were run, refusing to allow students to board without masks, requiring masks on the drivers when that affected the amount of oxygen to the brain. It was a mess. People in my district tried to protest, including me, but the police refused to let them into school board meetings, which is illegal in my state. If anything, what you're saying feels like you telling me to believe you and not my "lying" eyes.
- notch656a 4y ago
  >You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usua Person you replied to never said that. Could have been like my kid's school, where the kid/teacher missed a couple weeks but other than that the teachers that didn't die or whatever eventually came back and taught the kids in class in person. >showstopping complications. Well somehow they weren't as my county got hit worst than most and yet somehow my kid still got schooled, just through a private school. Didn't stop the show for those willing to keep the show going. >Most people I've found blaming teachers I definitely don't blame teachers in general. My kids teachers were great. Awesome people. The ones that gave up, and said well thinsg are challenging and I might die or whatever, well that's fine I don't blame them either. Go on and find another profession or whatever, you're not a slave. But I salute the ones who stuck around like my kid's teacher who was willing to adapt and overcome to keep things going so my child didn't get so far behind. >abusers The person you replied to never said teachers are "abusers." It almost sounds like you're arguing against some other person you have beef with, rather than the person who replied to you. Either way I don't know what to tell you. My kid, and her teacher kept going on through COVID in person somehow, so I guess they proved the impossible can actually happen. We lived in our alternate reality where it is possible, and you lived in one where it was a 'showstopper.'
- nradov 4y ago
  You're presenting a counterfactual. Sweden kept schools open. Very few people died. Why are you not acknowledging that reality?