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I've been literally called a grandma killer by a person I know in real life for wanting my kid to go school. I've been called a grandma killer for wanting a nor

I've been literally called a grandma killer by a person I know in real life for wanting my kid to go school. I've been called a grandma killer for wanting a normal thanksgiving with my extended family. The people doing this might be the minority, but they were the ones holding the microphone for the last 2.5 years. Nobody else got a voice.

ModernMech 4y ago
> The people doing this might be the minority, but they were the ones holding the microphone for the last 2.5 years. Nobody else got a voice. So in other words, 99% of the people were in the non-loony bucket, and you're focused on the 1% that yelled at you? I could turn your statement around. As a teacher, I've been called a child abuser by a person I know in real life for wanting teachers to have a safe working environment. The people doing this may be the minority, but they were the ones holding the microphone. So I really fail to see how what you're doing now in your second post is different from what you decry in your first.
- nradov 4y ago
  It was horrible how government officials in collaboration with teacher's unions inflicted collective punishment on our children by closing schools and then imposing mask mandates. There was never any high-quality scientific evidence to justify such policies. And we clearly see in retrospect that they were unnecessary: Sweden kept schools open without mask mandates and they ended up with a lower death rate than the USA. In most cases the actual classroom teachers that I talked with didn't even support those policies. It was the teacher's unions which did most of the damage.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Being an actual teacher and knowing and talking to many actual teachers, I can tell you that your assertion that teachers didn't support those policies is uninformed. What teachers wanted was for the safety of students and teachers as well. The issues faced were that schools were very short staffed, and it's difficult to keep children safe and to maintain an effective learning environment when half the faculty and staff are out sick. The "keep schools open" crowd often floated a false dichotomy where the option was between schooling as normal or closed schools. Schooling as normal was never a realistic option for many districts with missing faculty and staff. They would say "kids are not susceptible to covid, therefore schools are safe" without any concern about teachers who in fact died due to covid, as happened in my district. Today we're facing a national teacher shortage where those who would have thought about teaching are steering clear of the field, and those currently in it are looking to get out asap. The rhetoric you're displaying here is a large part of the reason why.
    - ghoward 4y ago
      > Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Maybe not, but it's what they did do. For some reason, people mix up intentions and consequences all the time. The intentions may have been good; the consequences were not.
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usual. The point is that when teachers are dying and out sick, and the school is running on a skeleton crew, schooling by definition couldn't be business as usual. Who teaches the classes when teachers are out and there are no subs? Who drives the kids to school when there is a shortage of bus drivers? Who keeps them safe when there aren't enough eyes to supervise? These issues were completely sidestepped by the "open schools" advocates, as if they were just minor implementation details and not showstopping complications. I've found that people who are not teachers and who have no idea what it's like to run a school are very quick to pass judgement when it comes to this issue. Usually digging a little deeper it's very easy to find this quickness to blame stems from various political viewpoints rather than any expertise or knowledge about the situation on the ground. Most people I've found blaming teachers like this don't even have any kids in school. Anyway, teachers are the ones on the front line right now trying to fix the problems that children face today due to the pandemic, so please spare me your moralizing about how teachers are abusers and conspired to inflict collective punishment on children. What are you doing to fix the problems?
        ghoward 4y ago
        I'm referring to the unions, not teachers. And when I have a kid, I will be homeschooling. Please don't assume. Also, I was briefly a bus driver for a school district during COVID. I was disgusted by how the school buses were run, refusing to allow students to board without masks, requiring masks on the drivers when that affected the amount of oxygen to the brain. It was a mess. People in my district tried to protest, including me, but the police refused to let them into school board meetings, which is illegal in my state. If anything, what you're saying feels like you telling me to believe you and not my "lying" eyes.
- Jiro 4y ago
  The 1% have far more than 1% of the influence.

ModernMech 4y ago

> The people doing this might be the minority, but they were the ones holding the microphone for the last 2.5 years. Nobody else got a voice. So in other words, 99% of the people were in the non-loony bucket, and you're focused on the 1% that yelled at you? I could turn your statement around. As a teacher, I've been called a child abuser by a person I know in real life for wanting teachers to have a safe working environment. The people doing this may be the minority, but they were the ones holding the microphone. So I really fail to see how what you're doing now in your second post is different from what you decry in your first.

nradov 4y ago
It was horrible how government officials in collaboration with teacher's unions inflicted collective punishment on our children by closing schools and then imposing mask mandates. There was never any high-quality scientific evidence to justify such policies. And we clearly see in retrospect that they were unnecessary: Sweden kept schools open without mask mandates and they ended up with a lower death rate than the USA. In most cases the actual classroom teachers that I talked with didn't even support those policies. It was the teacher's unions which did most of the damage.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Being an actual teacher and knowing and talking to many actual teachers, I can tell you that your assertion that teachers didn't support those policies is uninformed. What teachers wanted was for the safety of students and teachers as well. The issues faced were that schools were very short staffed, and it's difficult to keep children safe and to maintain an effective learning environment when half the faculty and staff are out sick. The "keep schools open" crowd often floated a false dichotomy where the option was between schooling as normal or closed schools. Schooling as normal was never a realistic option for many districts with missing faculty and staff. They would say "kids are not susceptible to covid, therefore schools are safe" without any concern about teachers who in fact died due to covid, as happened in my district. Today we're facing a national teacher shortage where those who would have thought about teaching are steering clear of the field, and those currently in it are looking to get out asap. The rhetoric you're displaying here is a large part of the reason why.
  - ghoward 4y ago
    > Thanks for proving my point. "Inflict[ing] collective punishment" is not what anyone was trying to do. Maybe not, but it's what they did do. For some reason, people mix up intentions and consequences all the time. The intentions may have been good; the consequences were not.
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      You're presenting a counterfactual, that if schools were opened, everything would have been fine and it would have been business as usual. The point is that when teachers are dying and out sick, and the school is running on a skeleton crew, schooling by definition couldn't be business as usual. Who teaches the classes when teachers are out and there are no subs? Who drives the kids to school when there is a shortage of bus drivers? Who keeps them safe when there aren't enough eyes to supervise? These issues were completely sidestepped by the "open schools" advocates, as if they were just minor implementation details and not showstopping complications. I've found that people who are not teachers and who have no idea what it's like to run a school are very quick to pass judgement when it comes to this issue. Usually digging a little deeper it's very easy to find this quickness to blame stems from various political viewpoints rather than any expertise or knowledge about the situation on the ground. Most people I've found blaming teachers like this don't even have any kids in school. Anyway, teachers are the ones on the front line right now trying to fix the problems that children face today due to the pandemic, so please spare me your moralizing about how teachers are abusers and conspired to inflict collective punishment on children. What are you doing to fix the problems?
      - ghoward 4y ago
        I'm referring to the unions, not teachers. And when I have a kid, I will be homeschooling. Please don't assume. Also, I was briefly a bus driver for a school district during COVID. I was disgusted by how the school buses were run, refusing to allow students to board without masks, requiring masks on the drivers when that affected the amount of oxygen to the brain. It was a mess. People in my district tried to protest, including me, but the police refused to let them into school board meetings, which is illegal in my state. If anything, what you're saying feels like you telling me to believe you and not my "lying" eyes.
Jiro 4y ago
The 1% have far more than 1% of the influence.