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If a student studied an older master in school and produced a painting inspired by that old master that included a copy of the signature of the old master, this

If a student studied an older master in school and produced a painting inspired by that old master that included a copy of the signature of the old master, this would be more indication of intent to fraud than if they didn't include the signature. Copyright can be fairly flexible in interpreting what constitutes a derivative work. The Getty water is evidence that an image belongs to Getty. If someone produces an image with the watermark and gets sued, they could say "your honor, I know it looks like I copied that image but let's consider the details of how my hypercomplex whatsit work..." and then judge, say a nontechnical person, looks at the defendant and say "no, just no, the court isn't going to look at those details, how could court do that?". Or maybe the court would consider it only if you paid 1000 neutral lawyer-programmers to come up with a judgement, at a cost of millions or billions per case.

filoleg 4y ago
What if it was not the copied signature of the old master, but a new one with a similar style and placed in a similar spot on the painting, but with the name of the student instead and looking blurry/a bit different? Because that's what's happening here, and that doesn't sound quite like fraud. Another scenario, what if i create a painting of a river by hand in acrylic and also draw a getty-watermark-looking thing on top using acrylic? As for why, i would put it there as an integral part of the piece, to allude to the fact of how corporations got their hands over even the purest things that have nothing to do with them, with the fake watermark in acrylic symbolizing it. You can make up any other reason, this is just the one i thought of as i was writing this. It wont look exactly like the real getty watermark, it will be acrylic and drawn by hand, so pretty uneven with colors being off and way less detailed. Doesn't feel like fraud to me.
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  My argument isn't really whether this is morally fraud. Maybe the device is really being "creative" or maybe it's copying. The question is whether the things supposed originality can be defend in court. What if i create a painting of a river by hand in acrylic and also draw a getty-watermark-looking thing on top using acrylic? As for why, i would put it there as an integral part of the piece, to allude to the fact of how corporations got their hands over even the purest things that have nothing to do with them, with the fake watermark in acrylic symbolizing it. A human artist might well do that and make that defense in court. For all anyone knows, some GPT-3-derived-thing might go through such a thought process also (though it seems unlikely). However, the GPT-3-derived-thing can't testify in court concerning it's intent and that produces problems. And it's difficult for anyone to make this claim for it. Edit: Also, if instead of a single work (of parody), you produced a series of your own stock photos, used the Getty Watermark and invited people to use them for stock photo purposes, then your use of the copyrighted Getty Watermark would no longer fall under the parody exception for fair use.

filoleg 4y ago

What if it was not the copied signature of the old master, but a new one with a similar style and placed in a similar spot on the painting, but with the name of the student instead and looking blurry/a bit different? Because that's what's happening here, and that doesn't sound quite like fraud. Another scenario, what if i create a painting of a river by hand in acrylic and also draw a getty-watermark-looking thing on top using acrylic? As for why, i would put it there as an integral part of the piece, to allude to the fact of how corporations got their hands over even the purest things that have nothing to do with them, with the fake watermark in acrylic symbolizing it. You can make up any other reason, this is just the one i thought of as i was writing this. It wont look exactly like the real getty watermark, it will be acrylic and drawn by hand, so pretty uneven with colors being off and way less detailed. Doesn't feel like fraud to me.

joe_the_user 4y ago
My argument isn't really whether this is morally fraud. Maybe the device is really being "creative" or maybe it's copying. The question is whether the things supposed originality can be defend in court. What if i create a painting of a river by hand in acrylic and also draw a getty-watermark-looking thing on top using acrylic? As for why, i would put it there as an integral part of the piece, to allude to the fact of how corporations got their hands over even the purest things that have nothing to do with them, with the fake watermark in acrylic symbolizing it. A human artist might well do that and make that defense in court. For all anyone knows, some GPT-3-derived-thing might go through such a thought process also (though it seems unlikely). However, the GPT-3-derived-thing can't testify in court concerning it's intent and that produces problems. And it's difficult for anyone to make this claim for it. Edit: Also, if instead of a single work (of parody), you produced a series of your own stock photos, used the Getty Watermark and invited people to use them for stock photo purposes, then your use of the copyrighted Getty Watermark would no longer fall under the parody exception for fair use.