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Layoffs are a way to get rid of low performers without legal issues.

by baby 4y ago

dymk 4y ago
Thats what a PIP is for. Layoffs are for firing a lot of people at once. Doesn’t have to be due to performance.
- jedberg 4y ago
  PIPs are lawsuit fodder. A general layoff where a bunch of people are let go at the same time makes it a lot harder for the person who was let go say it was targeted at them.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Why do you think PIPs are lawsuit fodder?
    - baby 4y ago
      They're generally used to prevent a lawsuit, but they do not prevent lawsuits. A layoff on the other hand...
    - jedberg 4y ago
      Because no matter what you write in a PIP someone could turn around and sue you for it and have a good enough case to at least force a settlement. Everyone has some sort of "protected class" they are part of. But with a layoff it's really hard to prove the layoff was targeted unless everyone in the layoff happens to be part of the same protected class.
- baby 4y ago
  That is definitely not what PIPs are for
- bleah1000 4y ago
  PIPs require a tremendous amount of effort and work. It also doesn't guarantee that the person would be fired. There are many times where the employee might do just enough to get off the PIP, but still be a really low performer. It also sucks for the employee, a PIP is really stressful not knowing what will happen next, will you get fired, should you start looking for a new job. In addition, the PIP can take months to get to the finish. Maybe even six months in some cases. A layoff takes way less time, but it does suck for the employee. I don't know which is worse. But if you have a good employer, you still might be able to transfer to another part of the company. Being on a PIP usually means your only choice is looking outside the company for a new job. Layoffs always hit good and low performers, there is no way it can't. But if a company wants to get rid of a number of low performers at the same time, PIPs are not the way to go.
kasey_junk 4y ago
I worked doing layoffs and you always say to the press you are removing low performers because what else are you going to say? In reality that’s not what happens. Instead you get rid of teams, roles or high cost individuals. Why? Because it is much easier to deal with the work the let go individuals are doing and it impacts morale less. I never saw a stack ranked layoff. The closest was demanding teams all lose someone. But that leaves teams with really good people getting rid of good people and teams full of dogs retaining them.

Layoffs are a way to get rid of low performers without legal issues.

by baby 4y ago

Layoffs are a way to get rid of low performers without legal issues.

dymk 4y ago

Thats what a PIP is for. Layoffs are for firing a lot of people at once. Doesn’t have to be due to performance.

jedberg 4y ago
PIPs are lawsuit fodder. A general layoff where a bunch of people are let go at the same time makes it a lot harder for the person who was let go say it was targeted at them.
- dymk 4y ago
  Why do you think PIPs are lawsuit fodder?
  - baby 4y ago
    They're generally used to prevent a lawsuit, but they do not prevent lawsuits. A layoff on the other hand...
  - jedberg 4y ago
    Because no matter what you write in a PIP someone could turn around and sue you for it and have a good enough case to at least force a settlement. Everyone has some sort of "protected class" they are part of. But with a layoff it's really hard to prove the layoff was targeted unless everyone in the layoff happens to be part of the same protected class.
baby 4y ago
That is definitely not what PIPs are for
bleah1000 4y ago
PIPs require a tremendous amount of effort and work. It also doesn't guarantee that the person would be fired. There are many times where the employee might do just enough to get off the PIP, but still be a really low performer. It also sucks for the employee, a PIP is really stressful not knowing what will happen next, will you get fired, should you start looking for a new job. In addition, the PIP can take months to get to the finish. Maybe even six months in some cases. A layoff takes way less time, but it does suck for the employee. I don't know which is worse. But if you have a good employer, you still might be able to transfer to another part of the company. Being on a PIP usually means your only choice is looking outside the company for a new job. Layoffs always hit good and low performers, there is no way it can't. But if a company wants to get rid of a number of low performers at the same time, PIPs are not the way to go.

kasey_junk 4y ago

I worked doing layoffs and you always say to the press you are removing low performers because what else are you going to say? In reality that’s not what happens. Instead you get rid of teams, roles or high cost individuals. Why? Because it is much easier to deal with the work the let go individuals are doing and it impacts morale less. I never saw a stack ranked layoff. The closest was demanding teams all lose someone. But that leaves teams with really good people getting rid of good people and teams full of dogs retaining them.