8 ms·

MinIO passes 1B cumulative Docker Pulls

134 points by edogrider 4y ago

dividedbyzero 4y ago
And well-earned, too. MinIO is a really neat solution for keeping local data available via the same protocol as that in the remote S3 buckets. I do wish there was something below it, though, complexity-wise, just a little application that serves a directory as an S3-compatible bucket. MinIO can feel a little much for simple testing scenarios and the like.
- snthpy 4y ago
  What about Localstack? I haven't used it myself yet but discovered it the other day and want to use it for a test harness for an application I'm building. https://hub.docker.com/r/localstack/localstack https://hub.docker.com/r/localstack/localstack
  - thesimon 4y ago
    The paywall decisions are sometimes kinda odd though. With SES you can only use the older API version, SESv2 is Pro only.
- msarrel 4y ago
  Thanks!
- seized 4y ago
  Take a look at Garage, it's very nice and simple. https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/ https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/
- e12e 4y ago
  Another alternative: https://github.com/gaul/s3proxy https://github.com/gaul/s3proxy (supports serving ("proxying") from file system)
packetlost 4y ago
I wonder how many of those are violating the AGPL license
- rglullis 4y ago
  Are you implying that merely using Minio is enough to force people to provide sources of their own services? If so, you need to be disabused of this misconception. To be violating the AGPL License, someone would have to be providing a customized version of Minio to end users and not providing the source.
  - athorax 4y ago
    This might be a bit pedantic, but isn't it not necessarily that they provide a modified minio to users, but rather (or additionally) they are running a service that uses a modified minio under the hood?
    - prtkgpt 4y ago
    - rglullis 4y ago
      No. The AGPL only consider distribution if the modified service is directly accessible to the users. If someone makes modifications to Minio but the modifications are only for their internal services - or even if those accessing this Modified-Minio are internal to them - then it does not count as software distribution and therefore they can keep the source private without needing to provide their code modifications. To take a few examples: - if I use Minio to store data for my application and I make some improvements (e.g: SSO login for the console for back-office users), it won't count as distribution. - If I have a set of services that use object storage running on my Minio cluster, and I add torrent-gateway capability to this cluster to make my applications able to find the data by content addressing, it won't count as network distribution and I do not need to share the source. - If I start offering S3-compatible services to end users based on Minio, and if I start offering to people the ability to download files via a torrent gateway, I need to provide the source of my changes. - If I make changes on the minio console to allow, e.g, a sleek file browsing UI with search, I need to provide the source with all my changes if this is acessible by the users.
tpmx 4y ago
I wonder what Docker's peak bandwidth usage is, and how they make it work, financially. Just imagine the vast number of poorly cached CI jobs pulling gigabytes from Docker hub on every commit, coupled with naive aproaches to CI/CD when doing microservices, prod/dev/test deployments, etc.
- treesknees 4y ago
  It's been 2 years now but Docker has started cracking down on this [1]. They introduced pull limits for anonymous and free accounts. Our company actually hit the anonymous limit regularly (several separate teams using docker/CI with the same public IP from our datacenter.) We've since started caching our images locally using Sonatype Nexus Repository Manager plus hosting our own registry for some simple things we used to be pulling from Docker Hub. As far as financially, Docker now charges for enterprise use of Docker Desktop, which we've also started paying for. But I'm sure the bandwidth for running Docker Hub isn't cheap. [1] https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/ https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/
- pepemon 4y ago
  Please clarify what is "poorly cached" and what is your solution to be not so poorly cached in this context. Looks like you're overestimating blindly.
  - mh- 4y ago
    a sibling comment to yours[0], from 'treesknees, addresses what a decent caching setup for this looks like. > We've since started caching our images locally using Sonatype Nexus Repository Manager plus hosting our own registry for some simple things we used to be pulling from Docker Hub. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32931044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32931044
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    If you run two jobs right after each other and the machine tries to pull the image separately for each one and redownloads the whole thing, then that's a poor cache. Modern practices make this relatively easy to accomplish by accident.
pixl97 4y ago
Um, sorry that was me when I left a script running in an infinite loop.
vbezhenar 4y ago
It's a pity that S3 becomes some kind of standard object storage protocol. I think it's overcomplicated.
- diroussel 4y ago
  In what way do you think it’s over complicated? Genuinely interested. Not sure about Minio, but most S3 clones don’t clone all API operations, just the ones they and their customers/users need.
  - vbezhenar 4y ago
    1. Buckets is unnecessary concept. Why use it at all, when we have domain and path. That should be enough. 2. Authentication is too convoluted. Signings, etc. Simple `Authorization` header should be enough. 3. Uploading a file should be as simple as PUT /path/to/file. Instead of multipart upload, header `Range: bytes=0-1023` should be used. 4. List is unnecessarily flexible. Why should users have the ability to use any character as path delimiter. `/` should be fixed. List operation should use ordinary REST conventions, like `GET /dir/?from=token` should return JSON with items inside `dir` and continuation token. Basically I want to be able to use object storage with simple `fetch` and few lines of code. Without all that SDK nonsense.
    - crgwbr 4y ago
      Every one of the things you list as unimportant, someone else lists as a mandatory requirement. And that’s why S3 won. No one uses everything it does, but everyone uses a different 10%.
      - stingraycharles 4y ago
        I don’t think S3 won because of its protocol, but rather being the first in its kind and dominating the market. Then other vendors started competing products, and to easy transition, implemented (parts of) the S3 protocol.
WFHRenaissance 4y ago
I used MinIO exactly once, and overall it was a joy to use. Happy to hear it's getting some amount of traction.
superb-owl 4y ago
This is a weird metric, but sadly one of the only ways of measuring OSS usage.
Cixelyn 4y ago
is anyone running a large baremetal distributed minio cluster in production? would love to know how reliable it is
- neverartful 4y ago
  Does minio have cluster support? I've always thought of it as non-clustered software.
  - simianpirate 4y ago
    Indeed it does. As for stability, I had a few decently sized customers running minio clusters in production and they never had any issues with it. https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-manage/deploy-minio-multi-node-multi-drive.html https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-ma...
    - seqizz 4y ago
      Nice to hear, I was planning to give it a shot.
  - ukd1 4y ago
    It does, and it works (docs here: https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-manage/deploy-minio-multi-node-multi-drive.html https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-ma...) - but I'm not running a "large" cluster.
jasongi 4y ago
I’ve only ever used MinIO as a stub for S3 in development, as it seems wrong/slow to require AWS access to start up a development environment. I like that it “Just Works” for this use-case, even though that’s definitely not where they’re getting their money from. I can never see myself using it in production unless my workplace had a no cloud policy - but I guess there’s enough companies out there with that issue that they exist. Docker pulls is a strange metric because of these two disparate use cases. MinIO success as a company depends on the latter but pulls would be strongly correlated with the former use case.
awill88 4y ago
> Those pulls don’t even account for other hubs (Quay.io for example) or private repositories, the real number is likely far higher but we count what we can measure directly. Does the final clause of this sentence support or distract from their achievement? I love Minio; I’m definitely contributing to those pulls. But that phrasing at the end puts a bad taste in my mouth—seems pretentious. Does anyone else feel that way?
- dewey 4y ago
  I think it's a fair addition, what makes you think that?

134 points by edogrider 4y ago

And well-earned, too. MinIO is a really neat solution for keeping local data available via the same protocol as that in the remote S3 buckets. I do wish there was something below it, though, complexity-wise, just a little application that serves a directory as an S3-compatible bucket. MinIO can feel a little much for simple testing scenarios and the like.

snthpy 4y ago
What about Localstack? I haven't used it myself yet but discovered it the other day and want to use it for a test harness for an application I'm building. https://hub.docker.com/r/localstack/localstack https://hub.docker.com/r/localstack/localstack
- thesimon 4y ago
  The paywall decisions are sometimes kinda odd though. With SES you can only use the older API version, SESv2 is Pro only.
msarrel 4y ago
Thanks!
seized 4y ago
Take a look at Garage, it's very nice and simple. https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/ https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/
e12e 4y ago
Another alternative: https://github.com/gaul/s3proxy https://github.com/gaul/s3proxy (supports serving ("proxying") from file system)

packetlost 4y ago

I wonder how many of those are violating the AGPL license

rglullis 4y ago
Are you implying that merely using Minio is enough to force people to provide sources of their own services? If so, you need to be disabused of this misconception. To be violating the AGPL License, someone would have to be providing a customized version of Minio to end users and not providing the source.
- athorax 4y ago
  This might be a bit pedantic, but isn't it not necessarily that they provide a modified minio to users, but rather (or additionally) they are running a service that uses a modified minio under the hood?
  - prtkgpt 4y ago
  - rglullis 4y ago
    No. The AGPL only consider distribution if the modified service is directly accessible to the users. If someone makes modifications to Minio but the modifications are only for their internal services - or even if those accessing this Modified-Minio are internal to them - then it does not count as software distribution and therefore they can keep the source private without needing to provide their code modifications. To take a few examples: - if I use Minio to store data for my application and I make some improvements (e.g: SSO login for the console for back-office users), it won't count as distribution. - If I have a set of services that use object storage running on my Minio cluster, and I add torrent-gateway capability to this cluster to make my applications able to find the data by content addressing, it won't count as network distribution and I do not need to share the source. - If I start offering S3-compatible services to end users based on Minio, and if I start offering to people the ability to download files via a torrent gateway, I need to provide the source of my changes. - If I make changes on the minio console to allow, e.g, a sleek file browsing UI with search, I need to provide the source with all my changes if this is acessible by the users.

tpmx 4y ago

I wonder what Docker's peak bandwidth usage is, and how they make it work, financially. Just imagine the vast number of poorly cached CI jobs pulling gigabytes from Docker hub on every commit, coupled with naive aproaches to CI/CD when doing microservices, prod/dev/test deployments, etc.

treesknees 4y ago
It's been 2 years now but Docker has started cracking down on this [1]. They introduced pull limits for anonymous and free accounts. Our company actually hit the anonymous limit regularly (several separate teams using docker/CI with the same public IP from our datacenter.) We've since started caching our images locally using Sonatype Nexus Repository Manager plus hosting our own registry for some simple things we used to be pulling from Docker Hub. As far as financially, Docker now charges for enterprise use of Docker Desktop, which we've also started paying for. But I'm sure the bandwidth for running Docker Hub isn't cheap. [1] https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/ https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/
pepemon 4y ago
Please clarify what is "poorly cached" and what is your solution to be not so poorly cached in this context. Looks like you're overestimating blindly.
- mh- 4y ago
  a sibling comment to yours[0], from 'treesknees, addresses what a decent caching setup for this looks like. > We've since started caching our images locally using Sonatype Nexus Repository Manager plus hosting our own registry for some simple things we used to be pulling from Docker Hub. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32931044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32931044
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  If you run two jobs right after each other and the machine tries to pull the image separately for each one and redownloads the whole thing, then that's a poor cache. Modern practices make this relatively easy to accomplish by accident.

pixl97 4y ago

Um, sorry that was me when I left a script running in an infinite loop.

vbezhenar 4y ago

It's a pity that S3 becomes some kind of standard object storage protocol. I think it's overcomplicated.

diroussel 4y ago
In what way do you think it’s over complicated? Genuinely interested. Not sure about Minio, but most S3 clones don’t clone all API operations, just the ones they and their customers/users need.
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  1. Buckets is unnecessary concept. Why use it at all, when we have domain and path. That should be enough. 2. Authentication is too convoluted. Signings, etc. Simple `Authorization` header should be enough. 3. Uploading a file should be as simple as PUT /path/to/file. Instead of multipart upload, header `Range: bytes=0-1023` should be used. 4. List is unnecessarily flexible. Why should users have the ability to use any character as path delimiter. `/` should be fixed. List operation should use ordinary REST conventions, like `GET /dir/?from=token` should return JSON with items inside `dir` and continuation token. Basically I want to be able to use object storage with simple `fetch` and few lines of code. Without all that SDK nonsense.
  - crgwbr 4y ago
    Every one of the things you list as unimportant, someone else lists as a mandatory requirement. And that’s why S3 won. No one uses everything it does, but everyone uses a different 10%.
    - stingraycharles 4y ago
      I don’t think S3 won because of its protocol, but rather being the first in its kind and dominating the market. Then other vendors started competing products, and to easy transition, implemented (parts of) the S3 protocol.

WFHRenaissance 4y ago

I used MinIO exactly once, and overall it was a joy to use. Happy to hear it's getting some amount of traction.

superb-owl 4y ago

This is a weird metric, but sadly one of the only ways of measuring OSS usage.

Cixelyn 4y ago

is anyone running a large baremetal distributed minio cluster in production? would love to know how reliable it is

neverartful 4y ago
Does minio have cluster support? I've always thought of it as non-clustered software.
- simianpirate 4y ago
  Indeed it does. As for stability, I had a few decently sized customers running minio clusters in production and they never had any issues with it. https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-manage/deploy-minio-multi-node-multi-drive.html https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-ma...
  - seqizz 4y ago
    Nice to hear, I was planning to give it a shot.
- ukd1 4y ago
  It does, and it works (docs here: https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-manage/deploy-minio-multi-node-multi-drive.html https://min.io/docs/minio/linux/operations/install-deploy-ma...) - but I'm not running a "large" cluster.

jasongi 4y ago

I’ve only ever used MinIO as a stub for S3 in development, as it seems wrong/slow to require AWS access to start up a development environment. I like that it “Just Works” for this use-case, even though that’s definitely not where they’re getting their money from. I can never see myself using it in production unless my workplace had a no cloud policy - but I guess there’s enough companies out there with that issue that they exist. Docker pulls is a strange metric because of these two disparate use cases. MinIO success as a company depends on the latter but pulls would be strongly correlated with the former use case.

awill88 4y ago

> Those pulls don’t even account for other hubs (Quay.io for example) or private repositories, the real number is likely far higher but we count what we can measure directly. Does the final clause of this sentence support or distract from their achievement? I love Minio; I’m definitely contributing to those pulls. But that phrasing at the end puts a bad taste in my mouth—seems pretentious. Does anyone else feel that way?

dewey 4y ago
I think it's a fair addition, what makes you think that?