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It seems clear that such training of AIs requires copying an image onto a computer system in which the training algorithms are performed. Maybe that fits in Fai

It seems clear that such training of AIs requires copying an image onto a computer system in which the training algorithms are performed. Maybe that fits in Fair Use (I doubt it: it's commercial and harms the original creators) but it certainly doesn't fit in Fair Dealing (in UK). I certainly, personally, approve of weak copyright laws that allows for things like training AIs without getting permission; neither USA, EU, nor UK seem to have such legislation however. This is all personal opinion and not legal advice, nor related to my employment.

colinmhayes 4y ago
How is this any different from training artists? Other art is copied into their brain and they transform it to create something new.
- indymike 4y ago
  Yes, but a computer is not a person - and copyright law is not very friendly to machine generated output.
dingdong123 4y ago
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strangescript 4y ago
The AI doesn't actually need the image. It needs a two dimensional array that represents the pixel values. I am sure there are some very clever ways to get around that hurdle if that is where the bar is set.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  > It needs a two dimensional array that represents the pixel values. That's an image… Are you saying that if I shut down the screen and the image isn't shown, I can copy it and send it around because it isn't an image but some numbers?
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  Well, if you can create the array without using the image then you're golden; but if you're not using the image then you're not training on the image. If you are using the image, then you're deriving (at least) a representation from the image. IME, limited as it is, courts don't take kindly to overly clever attempts to differentiate things from what everyone agrees they are; like 'the file isn't the image, so I can copy that', judges aren't stupid.
- r00fus 4y ago
  I'm curious how a "two dimensional pixel array" doesn't correspond to a picture.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    It's not a pirated image/film/book/music - it's just a (very long) array of numbers!
fomine3 4y ago
(IANAL) Use of copyrighted materials for AI training is explicitly allowed without permission in Japan law since 2019. https://storialaw.jp/en/service/bigdata/bigdata-12 https://storialaw.jp/en/service/bigdata/bigdata-12

colinmhayes 4y ago

How is this any different from training artists? Other art is copied into their brain and they transform it to create something new.

indymike 4y ago
Yes, but a computer is not a person - and copyright law is not very friendly to machine generated output.

dingdong123 4y ago

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strangescript 4y ago

The AI doesn't actually need the image. It needs a two dimensional array that represents the pixel values. I am sure there are some very clever ways to get around that hurdle if that is where the bar is set.

LtWorf 4y ago
> It needs a two dimensional array that represents the pixel values. That's an image… Are you saying that if I shut down the screen and the image isn't shown, I can copy it and send it around because it isn't an image but some numbers?
pbhjpbhj 4y ago
Well, if you can create the array without using the image then you're golden; but if you're not using the image then you're not training on the image. If you are using the image, then you're deriving (at least) a representation from the image. IME, limited as it is, courts don't take kindly to overly clever attempts to differentiate things from what everyone agrees they are; like 'the file isn't the image, so I can copy that', judges aren't stupid.
r00fus 4y ago
I'm curious how a "two dimensional pixel array" doesn't correspond to a picture.
- lioeters 4y ago
  It's not a pirated image/film/book/music - it's just a (very long) array of numbers!

fomine3 4y ago

(IANAL) Use of copyrighted materials for AI training is explicitly allowed without permission in Japan law since 2019. https://storialaw.jp/en/service/bigdata/bigdata-12 https://storialaw.jp/en/service/bigdata/bigdata-12