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In one of Sid Myers games he has a quote that always stuck with me "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited r

In one of Sid Myers games he has a quote that always stuck with me "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. " and you can watch that play out here. Crypto prices are falling and violence around that community goes up. Corporations see the economy going into a recession and start layoffs. I wonder if more fraud, wage theft and illegal tax avoidance happens during economic down turns as well?

ASalazarMX 4y ago
I know it's a game, but this quote is plain old competition for resources viewed with Ferengi lenses. If there's want and scarcity, there will be competition, no matter how fair.
nerdponx 4y ago
Alpha Centauri? I have a faint memory of Nwabudike Morgan saying a line like that in one of the early game "milestone" cutscenes.
snake_plissken 4y ago
-Nwabudike Morgan, diamond tycoon
rudyfink 4y ago
Adverse issues (e.g., fraud) tend to get noticed more in downturns, because, generally, everyone cares more about the details in those times. In times of plenty, they also occur (perhaps even as much), but people are more willing to let the same behavior pass because everything is going well. At the risk of stepping too much into the meta, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some innate behaviors from evolution for responding to downturns (e.g., caring more about fairness).
- willcipriano 4y ago
  The innate behavior idea makes some sense. One example: Unemployed married men are something like twice as likely to be divorced as men who are employed. People typically don't say "I divorced him beacuse he doesn't make any money" but suddenly behaviors that were tolerable previously become deal breakers once a man loses his job.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Or you know the gravy train is over and you can get 50% before it drains down to nothing + 20% of his imputed former income drained from the 50% he has remaining + a new man with a job.
simiones 4y ago
CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
gnramires 4y ago
It's never as simple as simple economic models suggest :) Some studies indicate poor people are more altruistic: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_poor_give_more https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_poor_give_...
- ch4s3 4y ago
  That makes perfect rational sense to me. You would expect people who may come to rely on charity or who have relied on it in the past to be more charitable now.
- SkyBelow 4y ago
  Historic studies on altruism often failed to account for all costs or benefits of certain actions. This led to results showing a great deal of altruism that later research overturned when scenarios were better crafted to control costs and benefits. It has been a while since I read the specifics but one example involved sales people who appeared to act altruistic and not take advantage of a seemingly oblivious shopper. Once the study was changed so that the specific sales person who took advantage of the shopper wasn't known to the researchers, only how often it happened, the altruism disappeared. There was a social currency of "appearing to be ethical" that was worth more than taking advantage of the shopper. Once that social currency was removed, the sales people reevaluated which options were most optimal. This is all to say that any studies on altruism need to be scrutinized to see if some benefit or cost was missed in the experiment design.
- meany 4y ago
  I won't express an opinion on who is more altruistic, [edit] because I don't think I have sufficient data to draw a broad conclusion. Studies on college campus like these always seem pretty weak to draw societal wide conclusions from. These tiny experiments are usually conducted on college students and often are not reproduce-able. "In one of these experiments, the researchers, led by doctoral student Paul Piff, gave participants the opportunity to share $10 with an anonymous stranger. A few days earlier, the participants had all filled out a questionnaire in which they reported their socioeconomic status. The results showed that people who had placed themselves lower on the social scale were actually more generous than upper class participants were." This strikes me as a pretty weak study to extrapolate to any society wide conclusions.
lemmiwinks 4y ago
> "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. " That quote is discussed a length on this wonderful blog (like others said, it's from SMAC): https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/first-impressions-morgan-industries/ https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/first-impressio...
Andrex 4y ago
Pravin Lal's speech stuck with me even more, it seemed prescient and relevant for how the mid/late-2000s and early 2010s played out. "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constructing its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
Grimburger 4y ago
> Crypto prices are falling and violence around that community goes up Claims like that need a source to back them up
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  Not to speak for them, but there are things to cite in the article: > Prosecutors say the defendant fired a handgun into a Pennsylvania home, and helped to torch another residence in the state with a Molotov Cocktail — all allegedly in service of a beef over stolen cryptocurrency. > Earlier this month, three men in the United Kingdom were arrested for attempting to assault a local man and steal his virtual currencies. It's not particularly strong evidence that this violence is caused by a falling value but it's also not entirely unreasonable to be left with that perspective.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    Mainly this bit: "Foreshadow’s experience is the latest example of a rapidly escalating cycle of physical violence that is taking hold of criminal SIM-swapping communities online. Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity detailed how multiple SIM-swapping Telegram channels are now replete with “violence-as-a-service” offerings, wherein denizens of the underground hire themselves out to perform various forms of physical violence — from slashing tires and throwing a brick through someone’s window, to conducting drive-by shootings, firebombings and home invasions."
criddell 4y ago
I've started reading a book about systems theory and and that's what the quote made me think of. One flow is restricted and so another increases. I wish I had read the book a long time ago because I've barely started it and I'm already looking at things in a new way.
- maayank 4y ago
  What book? Sounds interesting.
  - criddell 4y ago
    Thinking in Systems by Meadows. The book isn’t terribly long and so far it’s pretty easy to read.

ASalazarMX 4y ago

I know it's a game, but this quote is plain old competition for resources viewed with Ferengi lenses. If there's want and scarcity, there will be competition, no matter how fair.

nerdponx 4y ago

Alpha Centauri? I have a faint memory of Nwabudike Morgan saying a line like that in one of the early game "milestone" cutscenes.

snake_plissken 4y ago

-Nwabudike Morgan, diamond tycoon

rudyfink 4y ago

Adverse issues (e.g., fraud) tend to get noticed more in downturns, because, generally, everyone cares more about the details in those times. In times of plenty, they also occur (perhaps even as much), but people are more willing to let the same behavior pass because everything is going well. At the risk of stepping too much into the meta, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some innate behaviors from evolution for responding to downturns (e.g., caring more about fairness).

willcipriano 4y ago
The innate behavior idea makes some sense. One example: Unemployed married men are something like twice as likely to be divorced as men who are employed. People typically don't say "I divorced him beacuse he doesn't make any money" but suddenly behaviors that were tolerable previously become deal breakers once a man loses his job.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Or you know the gravy train is over and you can get 50% before it drains down to nothing + 20% of his imputed former income drained from the 50% he has remaining + a new man with a job.

simiones 4y ago

CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"

gnramires 4y ago

It's never as simple as simple economic models suggest :) Some studies indicate poor people are more altruistic: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_poor_give_more https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_poor_give_...

ch4s3 4y ago
That makes perfect rational sense to me. You would expect people who may come to rely on charity or who have relied on it in the past to be more charitable now.
SkyBelow 4y ago
Historic studies on altruism often failed to account for all costs or benefits of certain actions. This led to results showing a great deal of altruism that later research overturned when scenarios were better crafted to control costs and benefits. It has been a while since I read the specifics but one example involved sales people who appeared to act altruistic and not take advantage of a seemingly oblivious shopper. Once the study was changed so that the specific sales person who took advantage of the shopper wasn't known to the researchers, only how often it happened, the altruism disappeared. There was a social currency of "appearing to be ethical" that was worth more than taking advantage of the shopper. Once that social currency was removed, the sales people reevaluated which options were most optimal. This is all to say that any studies on altruism need to be scrutinized to see if some benefit or cost was missed in the experiment design.
meany 4y ago
I won't express an opinion on who is more altruistic, [edit] because I don't think I have sufficient data to draw a broad conclusion. Studies on college campus like these always seem pretty weak to draw societal wide conclusions from. These tiny experiments are usually conducted on college students and often are not reproduce-able. "In one of these experiments, the researchers, led by doctoral student Paul Piff, gave participants the opportunity to share $10 with an anonymous stranger. A few days earlier, the participants had all filled out a questionnaire in which they reported their socioeconomic status. The results showed that people who had placed themselves lower on the social scale were actually more generous than upper class participants were." This strikes me as a pretty weak study to extrapolate to any society wide conclusions.

lemmiwinks 4y ago

> "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. " That quote is discussed a length on this wonderful blog (like others said, it's from SMAC): https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/first-impressions-morgan-industries/ https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/first-impressio...

Andrex 4y ago

Pravin Lal's speech stuck with me even more, it seemed prescient and relevant for how the mid/late-2000s and early 2010s played out. "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constructing its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Grimburger 4y ago

> Crypto prices are falling and violence around that community goes up Claims like that need a source to back them up

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
Not to speak for them, but there are things to cite in the article: > Prosecutors say the defendant fired a handgun into a Pennsylvania home, and helped to torch another residence in the state with a Molotov Cocktail — all allegedly in service of a beef over stolen cryptocurrency. > Earlier this month, three men in the United Kingdom were arrested for attempting to assault a local man and steal his virtual currencies. It's not particularly strong evidence that this violence is caused by a falling value but it's also not entirely unreasonable to be left with that perspective.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Mainly this bit: "Foreshadow’s experience is the latest example of a rapidly escalating cycle of physical violence that is taking hold of criminal SIM-swapping communities online. Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity detailed how multiple SIM-swapping Telegram channels are now replete with “violence-as-a-service” offerings, wherein denizens of the underground hire themselves out to perform various forms of physical violence — from slashing tires and throwing a brick through someone’s window, to conducting drive-by shootings, firebombings and home invasions."

criddell 4y ago

I've started reading a book about systems theory and and that's what the quote made me think of. One flow is restricted and so another increases. I wish I had read the book a long time ago because I've barely started it and I'm already looking at things in a new way.

maayank 4y ago
What book? Sounds interesting.
- criddell 4y ago
  Thinking in Systems by Meadows. The book isn’t terribly long and so far it’s pretty easy to read.