5 ms·

Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? Russia can just flatten the terrain, or ultimately nuke. The reverse isn't possible.

deelly 4y ago
And?
koonsolo 4y ago
> Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? It seems most Ukrainians agree that the worst would be to live under Russian dictatorship. Maybe they have experience in this area.
_V_ 4y ago
UA fights for its national identitiy - they ultimately have everything to lose.
vandreas2 4y ago
There's no 'just' in flattening a terrain or nuking.
ChildOfChaos 4y ago
It seems that way to me. I'm not sure what the western forces game plan is and i'm not sure they actually want to help Ukraine too much, I think they are walking the fine line of wanting to hurt Russia enough and see what happens, but they don't want to truly arm Ukraine because if Russia really loses, they might just nuke.
- batmanturkey 4y ago
  Your statements are not backed up with either public communication or a lack of monetary support. In fact, the US just sent over a billion more $ in military aid. Think again.
  - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
    I understand, but I feel like they are monitoring the situation and making sure they walk that line clearly. Hence why they keep trickling the spending to them, they are monitoring and adjusting. They could have done much more and given way more, why those are large numbers, it's still not on the scale truly needed to defeat Russia. They still hold back plenty. They are obviously not going to say that directly in public, so public statements mean little.
    - batmanturkey 4y ago
      I don’t think it’s so tricky to analyze: they’ve deliberately sent weapons that are effective for liberation of Ukrainian territory and not sent weapons appropriate for conquesting Russia with. Germany has its own inner soul struggle regarding moving from a pacifist stance to being able to support Ukraine, but the UK and US support hasn’t been ambiguous in any way I see it. All of this could change in a second if Pooty either messes with Moldavia/Poland/Baltics or uses um unconventional weapons. I would not consider measured responses to be an open invitation for silliness
danielheath 4y ago
Nukes are a possibility, but MAD has stopped us all using them for many years so far. As far as conventional arms go: Russia has quite a few planes, tanks, and artillery; however, so long as the USA wills it, the Ukraine will have more anti-air missiles, more anti-tank munitions, and more long-range rockets. In any long-range fight, being able to locate your enemy is key; the pentagons ability to identify the location of Russian positions appears to be unsurpassed. So long as they are passing this intel to the Ukraine, along with long-range weapons to act on it, any attempt at a Russian advance will be done without access to local command/supply posts.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Does MAD really protect Ukraine? Edit: suppose the old man has properly lost it. If Putin drops a tactical nuke on a Ukranian military position, will Nato really respond in kind? Seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
  - tough 4y ago
    well, be damned
  - rcxdude 4y ago
    It might not be MAD but there is a really strong incentive from everyone else to maintain the nuclear taboo. Russia can expect NATO to get directly involved in the conventional war as well as losing their remaining allies if they do that. Whether that leads to further escalation or not is up to them.
  - batmanturkey 4y ago
    Speculation city, and Biden did clarify precisely a response to that a few days ago. The strength of the response depends upon the relative strength of the attack. Putin has been threatening nuclear holocaust for months now, and he would be wise to not do foolish things from his petulant temper tendencies. Bullies can’t accept people standing up to them, but them typically show themselves to be spineless cowards when the medicine is returned in force. It’s kind of characteristic of how bullies are formed from weak oppressed victim types who go sour and decide inflicting pain downstream is some solution to what ails their souls.
pjc50 4y ago
It's not clear that they can "flatten" significant areas, they've already shown signs of being constrained by supply of ammunition. Especially since the US satellites can point out where the ammunition dumps are and the Ukranians can blow them up.

deelly 4y ago

And?

koonsolo 4y ago

> Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? It seems most Ukrainians agree that the worst would be to live under Russian dictatorship. Maybe they have experience in this area.

_V_ 4y ago

UA fights for its national identitiy - they ultimately have everything to lose.

vandreas2 4y ago

There's no 'just' in flattening a terrain or nuking.

ChildOfChaos 4y ago

It seems that way to me. I'm not sure what the western forces game plan is and i'm not sure they actually want to help Ukraine too much, I think they are walking the fine line of wanting to hurt Russia enough and see what happens, but they don't want to truly arm Ukraine because if Russia really loses, they might just nuke.

batmanturkey 4y ago
Your statements are not backed up with either public communication or a lack of monetary support. In fact, the US just sent over a billion more $ in military aid. Think again.
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  I understand, but I feel like they are monitoring the situation and making sure they walk that line clearly. Hence why they keep trickling the spending to them, they are monitoring and adjusting. They could have done much more and given way more, why those are large numbers, it's still not on the scale truly needed to defeat Russia. They still hold back plenty. They are obviously not going to say that directly in public, so public statements mean little.
  - batmanturkey 4y ago
    I don’t think it’s so tricky to analyze: they’ve deliberately sent weapons that are effective for liberation of Ukrainian territory and not sent weapons appropriate for conquesting Russia with. Germany has its own inner soul struggle regarding moving from a pacifist stance to being able to support Ukraine, but the UK and US support hasn’t been ambiguous in any way I see it. All of this could change in a second if Pooty either messes with Moldavia/Poland/Baltics or uses um unconventional weapons. I would not consider measured responses to be an open invitation for silliness

danielheath 4y ago

Nukes are a possibility, but MAD has stopped us all using them for many years so far. As far as conventional arms go: Russia has quite a few planes, tanks, and artillery; however, so long as the USA wills it, the Ukraine will have more anti-air missiles, more anti-tank munitions, and more long-range rockets. In any long-range fight, being able to locate your enemy is key; the pentagons ability to identify the location of Russian positions appears to be unsurpassed. So long as they are passing this intel to the Ukraine, along with long-range weapons to act on it, any attempt at a Russian advance will be done without access to local command/supply posts.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Does MAD really protect Ukraine? Edit: suppose the old man has properly lost it. If Putin drops a tactical nuke on a Ukranian military position, will Nato really respond in kind? Seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
- tough 4y ago
  well, be damned
- rcxdude 4y ago
  It might not be MAD but there is a really strong incentive from everyone else to maintain the nuclear taboo. Russia can expect NATO to get directly involved in the conventional war as well as losing their remaining allies if they do that. Whether that leads to further escalation or not is up to them.
- batmanturkey 4y ago
  Speculation city, and Biden did clarify precisely a response to that a few days ago. The strength of the response depends upon the relative strength of the attack. Putin has been threatening nuclear holocaust for months now, and he would be wise to not do foolish things from his petulant temper tendencies. Bullies can’t accept people standing up to them, but them typically show themselves to be spineless cowards when the medicine is returned in force. It’s kind of characteristic of how bullies are formed from weak oppressed victim types who go sour and decide inflicting pain downstream is some solution to what ails their souls.

pjc50 4y ago

It's not clear that they can "flatten" significant areas, they've already shown signs of being constrained by supply of ammunition. Especially since the US satellites can point out where the ammunition dumps are and the Ukranians can blow them up.