4 ms·

I'm a former racer too and this constant equipment arms race and arguing is just so fatiguing. People can argue about analytics around equipment till pigs fly.

I'm a former racer too and this constant equipment arms race and arguing is just so fatiguing. People can argue about analytics around equipment till pigs fly. It's all still just an order of magnitude smaller than the differences between being fit and not fit and a stronger rider versus a weaker rider or a coached rider versus un-coached rider. The sport has separated into riding enthusiasts and equipment enthusiasts and the bike companies have completely brainwashed equipment enthusiasts. Your times don't make any sense either... 8% for 1km takes vastly less time than you're talking about at the power levels you're talking about. You're probably off an order of magnitude there. A rider with an FTP of around 300 will probably climb closer to 10km @ 8% in 40 minutes. Nothing is more tiring than being at the start of a race and there's someone with a $10k+ bike and a gut talking smack about bikes to someone everyone else knows is going to win the race and the guy with the $10k bike is getting dropped & pulled from the race. One person spent all their time on training and the other spent all their time researching & buying equipment.

jackmott42 4y ago
You are right I had the gradient off by 10x, sorry that should have been obvious, it has been a while Actual time savings of 1kg of weight reduction: 1 second And personally I've used aeroweenieing to podium in a cat 3 road race, and my wife has set state records and won pro races. You can make fun of fat guys doing a professional job if you like but it isn't just them.
- ben7799 4y ago
  If spending lots of money to win a Cat 3 race and knowing you did it with money and equipment instead of fitness and smarts is OK with you more power to you. But if it means thousands of dollars spent on a race that likely paid < $50 to the winner the whole thing can also look ridiculous too depending on perspective. This isn't really funny, it's a fundamental problem with cycling as a sport that limits who participates in the sport and hurts the sports ability to find and develop the best riders. It seems particularly bad in the US. Rules which helped control the equipment arms race would be good for the sport at the competitive level. Many promising athletes never try the sport because the costs are so prohibitive. On top of that in road racing if expensive equipment raises the speed of everyone in the field it accomplishes nothing other than increasing the risk of severe injury as speeds go up. If someone made $10k shoes that gave a competitive advantage in soccer or basketball, or a $10k baseball bat that offered significant advantages, etc.. that equipment would very likely be outlawed right away. Cycling has let everything get very out of control. Baseball obviously has already banned lots of bats that offer competitive advantage, whether it's banning metal bats after a certain level or limiting the power of metal bats below that level.
  - stevage 4y ago
    In almost every hobby there are people who get enjoyment from choosing and buying equipment and others who just want to do the thing. Look at people with massive collections of beard games they never play, people with any cameras and lenses but little output, etc. It's fine. Let people enjoy their hobby however they like.
  - skhr0680 4y ago
    Keirin bikes need to be built out of approved frames and parts, I’m surprised there isn’t a road racing category with similar rules
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Melatonic 4y ago
Its always easier to try to buy your way up the chain than putting in the work. And when you are not actually a pro it often becomes a social novelty of its own (and within reason one I often enjoy myself). The end game for me in all things like this is that when I actually become a sort of expert in the gear choices I realize that often the middle ground items are sometimes the best - pricier things are often better but there are huge diminishing returns and sometimes the simplest item of decent quality is actually the most functional.
JeremyNT 4y ago
> The sport has separated into riding enthusiasts and equipment enthusiasts and the bike companies have completely brainwashed equipment enthusiasts. I'm NOT a former racer but I've cycled recreationally (probably an average of about 30 miles a week, give or take) for over 20 years. When I first got into road cycling I nerded out on gear. Back then that meant skinny tires, carbon fiber, big bucks. I felt reallllly cool. As I've gotten older I stopped caring about what's cool. Like, in cycling, but in pretty much everything else too. I had to move recently, and ditched my road bike but kept my "cyclocross" (as it was called at the time I bought it) bike, since I wanted something more flexible and comfortable. It ways weigh more, and I ride on big honking tires with hefty tread. I tracked my (solo, non-drafting) rides and I'm slower... by like, .5 mph. I have no doubt that all the gear nerds out there know what they're talking about, and these data driven fads are real improvements, but the margins have gotta be smaller than most of us weekend warriors should realistically ever care about. At a certain point you gotta ask yourself why you're even into the sport - either you think you're gonna win something, and then this is your life (and every advantage is worth it), or you're in it to ride with buddies and enjoy the feeling of moving through space. If you're in the latter category, and you aren't getting dropped, obsessively optimizing gear isn't actually gonna make your experience any more fulfilling.

jackmott42 4y ago

You are right I had the gradient off by 10x, sorry that should have been obvious, it has been a while Actual time savings of 1kg of weight reduction: 1 second And personally I've used aeroweenieing to podium in a cat 3 road race, and my wife has set state records and won pro races. You can make fun of fat guys doing a professional job if you like but it isn't just them.

ben7799 4y ago
If spending lots of money to win a Cat 3 race and knowing you did it with money and equipment instead of fitness and smarts is OK with you more power to you. But if it means thousands of dollars spent on a race that likely paid < $50 to the winner the whole thing can also look ridiculous too depending on perspective. This isn't really funny, it's a fundamental problem with cycling as a sport that limits who participates in the sport and hurts the sports ability to find and develop the best riders. It seems particularly bad in the US. Rules which helped control the equipment arms race would be good for the sport at the competitive level. Many promising athletes never try the sport because the costs are so prohibitive. On top of that in road racing if expensive equipment raises the speed of everyone in the field it accomplishes nothing other than increasing the risk of severe injury as speeds go up. If someone made $10k shoes that gave a competitive advantage in soccer or basketball, or a $10k baseball bat that offered significant advantages, etc.. that equipment would very likely be outlawed right away. Cycling has let everything get very out of control. Baseball obviously has already banned lots of bats that offer competitive advantage, whether it's banning metal bats after a certain level or limiting the power of metal bats below that level.
- stevage 4y ago
  In almost every hobby there are people who get enjoyment from choosing and buying equipment and others who just want to do the thing. Look at people with massive collections of beard games they never play, people with any cameras and lenses but little output, etc. It's fine. Let people enjoy their hobby however they like.
- skhr0680 4y ago
  Keirin bikes need to be built out of approved frames and parts, I’m surprised there isn’t a road racing category with similar rules

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Melatonic 4y ago

Its always easier to try to buy your way up the chain than putting in the work. And when you are not actually a pro it often becomes a social novelty of its own (and within reason one I often enjoy myself). The end game for me in all things like this is that when I actually become a sort of expert in the gear choices I realize that often the middle ground items are sometimes the best - pricier things are often better but there are huge diminishing returns and sometimes the simplest item of decent quality is actually the most functional.

JeremyNT 4y ago

> The sport has separated into riding enthusiasts and equipment enthusiasts and the bike companies have completely brainwashed equipment enthusiasts. I'm NOT a former racer but I've cycled recreationally (probably an average of about 30 miles a week, give or take) for over 20 years. When I first got into road cycling I nerded out on gear. Back then that meant skinny tires, carbon fiber, big bucks. I felt reallllly cool. As I've gotten older I stopped caring about what's cool. Like, in cycling, but in pretty much everything else too. I had to move recently, and ditched my road bike but kept my "cyclocross" (as it was called at the time I bought it) bike, since I wanted something more flexible and comfortable. It ways weigh more, and I ride on big honking tires with hefty tread. I tracked my (solo, non-drafting) rides and I'm slower... by like, .5 mph. I have no doubt that all the gear nerds out there know what they're talking about, and these data driven fads are real improvements, but the margins have gotta be smaller than most of us weekend warriors should realistically ever care about. At a certain point you gotta ask yourself why you're even into the sport - either you think you're gonna win something, and then this is your life (and every advantage is worth it), or you're in it to ride with buddies and enjoy the feeling of moving through space. If you're in the latter category, and you aren't getting dropped, obsessively optimizing gear isn't actually gonna make your experience any more fulfilling.