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It's easy to by unlocked iPhone and Android phones, including the top of the line models. The problem is, you have to pay full price. Or, you can buy a subsidi

It's easy to by unlocked iPhone and Android phones, including the top of the line models. The problem is, you have to pay full price. Or, you can buy a subsidized phone at a significant discount by agreeing to a contract with a cell provider. It's reasonable that the providers expect to have a way to enforce the contract. If the second option was the only option, I'd be more sympathetic to government regulatory involvement here. But it's not -- factory-unlocked phones are trivial to obtain. Consumers already have a choice.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
What are you talking about? If you try to cancel the contract they either take back the phone or you pay them. I don't see how unlocking a phone screws the provider.
- nordsieck 4y ago
  > If you try to cancel the contract they either take back the phone or you pay them. I don't see how unlocking a phone screws the provider. It's because some people will cancel the contract, but can't or won't pay. A locked phone is effectively collateral.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > It's because some people will cancel the contract How do you "cancel" a contract? Can I do that with my student loans without the President's help?
- millzlane 4y ago
  It screws them because someone just stops paying them taking the phone to a different network with another sim.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    You don't get to just stop paying people, unless you want them to come after you. And I don't know how easy it is to get an account with another service provider if you owe your last one $800.
flutas 4y ago
> If the second option was the only option, I'd be more sympathetic to government regulatory involvement here. Like at Verizon? Who systematically locks all phones bought from them whatsoever, even at third party stores, if purchased outright at full price?[0] > [0]: In order to mitigate theft and other fraudulent activity, newly purchased devices are “locked” to work exclusively on the Verizon network. We have separate device unlocking policies that cover postpay and prepaid devices, as well as special rules for deployed military personnel. Yes, you can get them unlocked, but it's cumbersome at best in my experience.[1] > [1]: Devices that you purchase from Verizon are locked for 60 days after purchase. Devices that you purchase from our retail partners are locked for 60 days after activation. After 60 days, we will automatically remove the lock. Following the 60 day lock period, we do not lock our phones at any time. And anecdata (admittedly from the past), but I've never had them automatically unlock the devices. It's always been a nightmare with CS to get them unlocked, stuck in repeated loops of "I don't know what you're talking about" to "this requires a different team, let me transfer you." > But it's not -- factory-unlocked phones are trivial to obtain. Consumers already have a choice. How often do people not know the device they are paying full price for is locked to the network? ===== Or how about T-Mobile, who automatically locks phones to their network when a sim card is inserted? [2][3][4][5] Good quote from [5] as well. > Best Buy phones lock to the carrier of the first sim you insert. ===== [0]/[1]: https://www.verizon.com/about/consumer-safety/device-unlocking-policy https://www.verizon.com/about/consumer-safety/device-unlocki... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/px8w16/tmobile_locked_my_iphone_that_i_paid_full_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/px8w16/tmobile_loc... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/umv2bu/unlocking_iphone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/umv2bu/unlocking_i... [4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/wnpype/tmobile_will_not_unlock_my_iphone_13_pro_account/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/wnpype/tmobile_wil... [5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/vir8tc/tmobile_cant_unlock_bestbuy_iphone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/vir8tc/tmobile_can...
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  This is pathetic behavior from Verizon/ATT/T-Mobile. I follow tech news and even I had no idea even Apple lets carriers lock phones to the first network they connect to. I always knew to avoid Verizon/T-Mobile/ATT stores, but I guess even Best Buy is not safe.
flerchin 4y ago
They're locking unlocked phones. That's the problem. Happened to me. I purchased a pixel from google. Inserted my at&t sim, and it was locked to at&t when I tried to use my tmobile sim.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  How does this work? Is Apple doing something that Google is not so that phones bought from Apple cannot be locked? Why would Google allow ATT to lock a phone sold Google them via a SIM?
  - pivo 4y ago
    Apple phones can definitely be locked. I have an iPhone that is fully paid off. My company was paying for the monthly fee on AT&T for the last year and a half. When I left the company a month ago I switched the phone to a new personal account with AT&T because it apparently wasn't possible to get the phone on a personal account and switch carriers at the same time. I then tried to unlock the phone to move to a better carrier. After spending hours on support calls with AT&T thy finally told me that they can't unlock it for two months after a new account is created. I asked why and they said, "it's just our policy." May AT&T rot in hell.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      I know they can be locked, but not if purchased from Apple. Which is why I have always bought phones from Apple since 2008, since I always hated the locking game. But I assume Google or any other manufacturer would similarly not want their customer to end up with a locked phone, hence my surprise that a phone purchased from google also can end up locked.
      - flutas 4y ago
        > but not if purchased from Apple That's actually wrong. Apple has what's called a Flex Activation policy. Some networks can lock your device based on just the sim card installed, even if it was paid for outright. I'm actually curious if yours is locked and you just don't know it. Mine purchased from BestBuy is locked (thanks T-Mobile) even though it was purchased as "unlocked." Settings > General > About > Carrier Lock
gshulegaard 4y ago
> It's reasonable that the providers expect to have a way to enforce the contract. No, no it is not. Contracts are legally binding and therefore enforcement should be done via legal means. This type of behavior is nothing short of vigilantism. Beyond that, this type of behavior is anti-competitive. Carriers should compete on service and customer satisfaction, not how much of a margin they can eat to entice customers into contracts. This type of scheme naturally favors larger companies and acts as a way for industry incumbents to retain market market share.
zamalek 4y ago
> The problem is, you have to pay full price. Keep in mind that the "free" phones can be factored into your monthly payments, so you may eventually pay for the phone anyway. If anyone is currently using a provider-issued phone then start saving up and get yourself out of this trap (you can also usually trade-in your old phone when purchasing one yourself).
- woobar 4y ago
  That was the case years ago. Right now major providers will not discount service price if you bring your own phone. They might give you a one time signup bonus when you join them. I.e. right now your option with the big three is to pay ~$50/month for the service with the fully paid off unlocked phone, or pay same ~$50/month with a free phone locked for 2-3 years.
Melatonic 4y ago
The other problem however is that a lot of the time the unlocked model (if it does work or if they even allow you to activate it) will be missing a few big features like WiFi calling.
thayne 4y ago
> It's easy to by unlocked iPhone and Android phones, including the top of the line models. Not really. If you want an unlocked phone, there are less options. Some models aren't even available unlocked. And often you have to search through some small text to find if a phone is unlocked or not. If you know what you are doing, it isn't too difficult, but the average consumer doesn't know what to look for and can very easily end up with a phone locked to the wrong network. Not to mention that in brick and mortar stores, most phone available are locked.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

What are you talking about? If you try to cancel the contract they either take back the phone or you pay them. I don't see how unlocking a phone screws the provider.

nordsieck 4y ago
> If you try to cancel the contract they either take back the phone or you pay them. I don't see how unlocking a phone screws the provider. It's because some people will cancel the contract, but can't or won't pay. A locked phone is effectively collateral.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > It's because some people will cancel the contract How do you "cancel" a contract? Can I do that with my student loans without the President's help?
millzlane 4y ago
It screws them because someone just stops paying them taking the phone to a different network with another sim.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  You don't get to just stop paying people, unless you want them to come after you. And I don't know how easy it is to get an account with another service provider if you owe your last one $800.

flutas 4y ago

> If the second option was the only option, I'd be more sympathetic to government regulatory involvement here. Like at Verizon? Who systematically locks all phones bought from them whatsoever, even at third party stores, if purchased outright at full price?[0] > [0]: In order to mitigate theft and other fraudulent activity, newly purchased devices are “locked” to work exclusively on the Verizon network. We have separate device unlocking policies that cover postpay and prepaid devices, as well as special rules for deployed military personnel. Yes, you can get them unlocked, but it's cumbersome at best in my experience.[1] > [1]: Devices that you purchase from Verizon are locked for 60 days after purchase. Devices that you purchase from our retail partners are locked for 60 days after activation. After 60 days, we will automatically remove the lock. Following the 60 day lock period, we do not lock our phones at any time. And anecdata (admittedly from the past), but I've never had them automatically unlock the devices. It's always been a nightmare with CS to get them unlocked, stuck in repeated loops of "I don't know what you're talking about" to "this requires a different team, let me transfer you." > But it's not -- factory-unlocked phones are trivial to obtain. Consumers already have a choice. How often do people not know the device they are paying full price for is locked to the network? ===== Or how about T-Mobile, who automatically locks phones to their network when a sim card is inserted? [2][3][4][5] Good quote from [5] as well. > Best Buy phones lock to the carrier of the first sim you insert. ===== [0]/[1]: https://www.verizon.com/about/consumer-safety/device-unlocking-policy https://www.verizon.com/about/consumer-safety/device-unlocki... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/px8w16/tmobile_locked_my_iphone_that_i_paid_full_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/px8w16/tmobile_loc... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/umv2bu/unlocking_iphone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/umv2bu/unlocking_i... [4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/wnpype/tmobile_will_not_unlock_my_iphone_13_pro_account/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/wnpype/tmobile_wil... [5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/vir8tc/tmobile_cant_unlock_bestbuy_iphone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/vir8tc/tmobile_can...

lotsofpulp 4y ago
This is pathetic behavior from Verizon/ATT/T-Mobile. I follow tech news and even I had no idea even Apple lets carriers lock phones to the first network they connect to. I always knew to avoid Verizon/T-Mobile/ATT stores, but I guess even Best Buy is not safe.

flerchin 4y ago

They're locking unlocked phones. That's the problem. Happened to me. I purchased a pixel from google. Inserted my at&t sim, and it was locked to at&t when I tried to use my tmobile sim.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
How does this work? Is Apple doing something that Google is not so that phones bought from Apple cannot be locked? Why would Google allow ATT to lock a phone sold Google them via a SIM?
- pivo 4y ago
  Apple phones can definitely be locked. I have an iPhone that is fully paid off. My company was paying for the monthly fee on AT&T for the last year and a half. When I left the company a month ago I switched the phone to a new personal account with AT&T because it apparently wasn't possible to get the phone on a personal account and switch carriers at the same time. I then tried to unlock the phone to move to a better carrier. After spending hours on support calls with AT&T thy finally told me that they can't unlock it for two months after a new account is created. I asked why and they said, "it's just our policy." May AT&T rot in hell.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I know they can be locked, but not if purchased from Apple. Which is why I have always bought phones from Apple since 2008, since I always hated the locking game. But I assume Google or any other manufacturer would similarly not want their customer to end up with a locked phone, hence my surprise that a phone purchased from google also can end up locked.
    - flutas 4y ago
      > but not if purchased from Apple That's actually wrong. Apple has what's called a Flex Activation policy. Some networks can lock your device based on just the sim card installed, even if it was paid for outright. I'm actually curious if yours is locked and you just don't know it. Mine purchased from BestBuy is locked (thanks T-Mobile) even though it was purchased as "unlocked." Settings > General > About > Carrier Lock

gshulegaard 4y ago

> It's reasonable that the providers expect to have a way to enforce the contract. No, no it is not. Contracts are legally binding and therefore enforcement should be done via legal means. This type of behavior is nothing short of vigilantism. Beyond that, this type of behavior is anti-competitive. Carriers should compete on service and customer satisfaction, not how much of a margin they can eat to entice customers into contracts. This type of scheme naturally favors larger companies and acts as a way for industry incumbents to retain market market share.

zamalek 4y ago

> The problem is, you have to pay full price. Keep in mind that the "free" phones can be factored into your monthly payments, so you may eventually pay for the phone anyway. If anyone is currently using a provider-issued phone then start saving up and get yourself out of this trap (you can also usually trade-in your old phone when purchasing one yourself).

woobar 4y ago
That was the case years ago. Right now major providers will not discount service price if you bring your own phone. They might give you a one time signup bonus when you join them. I.e. right now your option with the big three is to pay ~$50/month for the service with the fully paid off unlocked phone, or pay same ~$50/month with a free phone locked for 2-3 years.

Melatonic 4y ago

The other problem however is that a lot of the time the unlocked model (if it does work or if they even allow you to activate it) will be missing a few big features like WiFi calling.

thayne 4y ago

> It's easy to by unlocked iPhone and Android phones, including the top of the line models. Not really. If you want an unlocked phone, there are less options. Some models aren't even available unlocked. And often you have to search through some small text to find if a phone is unlocked or not. If you know what you are doing, it isn't too difficult, but the average consumer doesn't know what to look for and can very easily end up with a phone locked to the wrong network. Not to mention that in brick and mortar stores, most phone available are locked.