5 ms·

I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. What we have is the world champion throwing a tantrum because he lost agains

I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. What we have is the world champion throwing a tantrum because he lost against a player there is absolutely no evidence has cheated against him and is now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. This is harassment pure and simple. The whole thing is disgraceful and reflects extremely badly on competitive chess.

romanovcode 4y ago
>is now calling for him to be expelled He made no comment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  He just refused to play against him. You don’t need to talk to make a comment. I don’t understand how an adult can defend Magnus there. As a public figure his attitude is simply shocking.
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    You interpreting Carlsen's actions as "tantrum" and calling for measures against the other player has just as much evidence as there is for the cheating. For a public figure his response is unusually quiet and calm to me. Though I'm not into chess so I don't know how it is perceived from that angle.
    - jagrsw 4y ago
      > unusually quiet and calm to me. The crux seems to be that a genetl(wo)man would either directly accuse, or remain silent. What M.Carlsen is doing is de-facto accusing while saying "don't look at me, I didn't say it out loud". It's so... un.. hacker.. style.
FooHentai 4y ago
I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simply never murder anyone. Honestly, bravo. He's at the point in his career that he really doesn't need to prove anything, and as such is uniquely positioned to make this kind of statement with at least a vague chance that it will be heeded.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  > I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that. There is no permissiveness here. Hans has played according to the rule of the tournament. There is no evidence of cheating. That’s it. Unless you have proof of what you are advancing, you are just bullying a teenager. The conduct of the chess community has a whole has been nothing short of shameful in this instance.
  - FooHentai 4y ago
    Does any of what you just said not also apply to Carlsen?
  - KingMob 4y ago
    He's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      Sorry but that’s garbage. You either have evidence or you don’t. You can’t just say: once guilty always guilty and be fine with that. I find the general holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude expressed by most armchair commenters extremely off putting.
smeagull 4y ago
If this were online, the guy would long ago have had his account deleted.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  On a second-rate chess site, with a very imperfect anti-cheating mechanism that produces a lot of false positives, maybe.
nextlevelwizard 4y ago
>now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. Considering how Carlsen has not made any public statements about the matter how did you get to this? But true. There is no evidence, but there is quite a lot of suspicious activity around Niemann if there wasn't this wouldn't be a story.
kaishiro 4y ago
What tantrum are you referring to? Didn't he just silently resign?
michaelt 4y ago
> I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. Well, chess players are famous for spending a lot of time analysing their opponents' games in great detail. And the world champion is in a sense the greatest living human analyser of high-level chess games. You're right that Carlsen hasn't produced any hard evidence - or even made any clear statements. But on the other hand, for me to say I knew better than him about analysing chess would make it look like I didn't know what I was talking about. Without hard evidence I don't think Niemann should be punished - but it's certainly appropriate to take a very hard look.
handsclean 4y ago
That doesn’t match with Carlsen’s past behavior (he’s been consistently graceful in defeat over many years), isn’t what Carlsen did (he refused to play again, he didn’t even directly accuse him of cheating let alone call for his expulsion or harass him), and there isn’t no evidence (just weak evidence). Just consider, for a moment, the possibility that the kid did cheat again. What could Carlsen have possibly done that you wouldn’t call a tantrum? What he did was the most polite, least confrontational, thing possible. We don’t currently have sufficient evidence that he cheated, but don’t confuse uncertainty for evidence towards either side.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  > What could Carlsen have possibly done that you wouldn’t call a tantrum? What he did was the most polite, least confrontational, thing possible. He could (and should) have played a game in the best way he possibly can. If he'd lose again (which I doubt) we could have analyzed Niemann's performance and maybe arrive to some conclusions.
  - booi 4y ago
    That'd be like asking Lance Armstrong to compete in the Tour de France again and when he wins, we'll analyze his performance and maybe arrive to some conclusions... ???
    - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      He entered a tournament and he doesn't have any evidence against Niemann. What he does is bullying.
DoesntMatter22 4y ago
He didn't accuse him of anything. You are making that up to make your position sound better.

romanovcode 4y ago

>is now calling for him to be expelled He made no comment.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
He just refused to play against him. You don’t need to talk to make a comment. I don’t understand how an adult can defend Magnus there. As a public figure his attitude is simply shocking.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  You interpreting Carlsen's actions as "tantrum" and calling for measures against the other player has just as much evidence as there is for the cheating. For a public figure his response is unusually quiet and calm to me. Though I'm not into chess so I don't know how it is perceived from that angle.
  - jagrsw 4y ago
    > unusually quiet and calm to me. The crux seems to be that a genetl(wo)man would either directly accuse, or remain silent. What M.Carlsen is doing is de-facto accusing while saying "don't look at me, I didn't say it out loud". It's so... un.. hacker.. style.

FooHentai 4y ago

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simply never murder anyone. Honestly, bravo. He's at the point in his career that he really doesn't need to prove anything, and as such is uniquely positioned to make this kind of statement with at least a vague chance that it will be heeded.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
> I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that. There is no permissiveness here. Hans has played according to the rule of the tournament. There is no evidence of cheating. That’s it. Unless you have proof of what you are advancing, you are just bullying a teenager. The conduct of the chess community has a whole has been nothing short of shameful in this instance.
- FooHentai 4y ago
  Does any of what you just said not also apply to Carlsen?
- KingMob 4y ago
  He's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Sorry but that’s garbage. You either have evidence or you don’t. You can’t just say: once guilty always guilty and be fine with that. I find the general holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude expressed by most armchair commenters extremely off putting.

smeagull 4y ago

If this were online, the guy would long ago have had his account deleted.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
On a second-rate chess site, with a very imperfect anti-cheating mechanism that produces a lot of false positives, maybe.

nextlevelwizard 4y ago

>now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. Considering how Carlsen has not made any public statements about the matter how did you get to this? But true. There is no evidence, but there is quite a lot of suspicious activity around Niemann if there wasn't this wouldn't be a story.

kaishiro 4y ago

What tantrum are you referring to? Didn't he just silently resign?

michaelt 4y ago

> I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. Well, chess players are famous for spending a lot of time analysing their opponents' games in great detail. And the world champion is in a sense the greatest living human analyser of high-level chess games. You're right that Carlsen hasn't produced any hard evidence - or even made any clear statements. But on the other hand, for me to say I knew better than him about analysing chess would make it look like I didn't know what I was talking about. Without hard evidence I don't think Niemann should be punished - but it's certainly appropriate to take a very hard look.

handsclean 4y ago

That doesn’t match with Carlsen’s past behavior (he’s been consistently graceful in defeat over many years), isn’t what Carlsen did (he refused to play again, he didn’t even directly accuse him of cheating let alone call for his expulsion or harass him), and there isn’t no evidence (just weak evidence). Just consider, for a moment, the possibility that the kid did cheat again. What could Carlsen have possibly done that you wouldn’t call a tantrum? What he did was the most polite, least confrontational, thing possible. We don’t currently have sufficient evidence that he cheated, but don’t confuse uncertainty for evidence towards either side.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
> What could Carlsen have possibly done that you wouldn’t call a tantrum? What he did was the most polite, least confrontational, thing possible. He could (and should) have played a game in the best way he possibly can. If he'd lose again (which I doubt) we could have analyzed Niemann's performance and maybe arrive to some conclusions.
- booi 4y ago
  That'd be like asking Lance Armstrong to compete in the Tour de France again and when he wins, we'll analyze his performance and maybe arrive to some conclusions... ???
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    He entered a tournament and he doesn't have any evidence against Niemann. What he does is bullying.

DoesntMatter22 4y ago

He didn't accuse him of anything. You are making that up to make your position sound better.