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How does SOPA threaten Stack Overflow?
- bradleyland 15y agoDid anyone ever think we'd see the day where we were using DMCA as an example of the preferrable alternative?
- thirsteh 15y agoYes, but I'm a pessimist. Do I win anything? :( Big media has scary pull in D.C.
- rmc 15y agoYes, it's strange isn't it? But since the big media copyright lads want to go further than the DMCA, that would imply it was OK. And the USA has the DMCA now, how has the last 10 years been for internet freedom? Not too bad, so it probably wasn't that bad.
- quanticle 15y agoHow much freer would the Internet have been if the DMCA had not been passed? Think of all the hours YouTube alone spends in policing itself and handling copyright takedown notices and imagine those hours spent improving YouTube or coming up with new video sharing services. The current copyright regime is tolerable. Tolerable and good are worlds apart.
- nknight 15y agoYouTube would not exist today without the safe-harbor provisions of the DMCA. It would have been sued out of existence years ago. The DMCA did not create copyright law, it modified it, and pre-DMCA, YouTube would have had no protections.
- 1010100101 15y agoAnd without a fair use exception to copyright, search engines like Google could not show matching web site excerpts in their results. Imagine search engine results that consisted only of URL's.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- starwed 15y agoThe DMCA was a whole bundle of legislation, and some of its effects were highly desirable -- in particular the safe harbor provisions. Without those[1] sites like youtube could never have existed. You can read about the various portions of it on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Ac... Title I includes the anti-circumvention measures, which is what everyone loves to hate, but the act as a whole deals with a lot of other stuff. (Title V deals with copyright and boat hull designs, for instance!) [1]Or something stronger, tis not like it was perfect!
- bdhe 15y agoAlthough some aspects of DMCA aren't bad, I believe this is also the Overton Window[1] in action. I wonder if all this outrage of SOPA might actually allow the Senate's Protect IP Act (PIPA) to pass "as a compromise". [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
- ghurlman 15y agoThanksgiving was the cutesy (but needed) Upgrade Your Parents' Browser Day. $winter_holiday_of_choice should include a Explain SOPA To Your Parents Lunch or something - we need to get as many level-headed against SOPA as possible.
- canadiancreed 15y agoEspecially since that demographic will probably be the ones that would support candidates that support this bill. Showing what is lost, especially in the freedom area would be a big boost....assuming they want to learn that is.
- BoppreH 15y agoFunny how people use "$winter_holiday_of_choice" to avoid religious bias, but end up ignoring the literal half of the planet where the holiday happens during summer. Not complaining, just pointing out the futility of the exercise. It would have made sense if SOPA was an American problem, but as it stands it threatens the internet for the whole world because of hosting locations and origin of technology companies.
- roc 15y ago> "Not complaining, just pointing out the futility of the exercise." So you're saying we should go with $solstice_holiday_of_choice ? Just because they didn't abstract sufficiently doesn't mean that abstraction is necessarily futile.
- flyingyeti 15y agoI'm used to seeing a close button on these types of messages on Stack Overflow. Kind of a nuisance to have it stuck there even after I've signed the petition. Maybe if it were a different color, or I hadn't been trained to read all of the yellow status messages on each SO page, it would be less annoying..
- kvermeer 15y agoThe system messages don't have a close button, they're usually used for important site status updates such as "There will be a short network wide outage starting on date at time for system maintenance". The use of the tool for memorials to Steve Jobs or for political messages like this is extremely rare. It's a good thing that you read the status messages. Normally, they're important.
- jsight 15y agoAll of the top notification banners are the most annoying part of SO, IMO. Every time I go there I end up clicking close 3-4 times.
- gergles 15y agoThe problem is that if they keep using them for politics or for other things that aren't system messages, people will start ignoring them. "Ugh, that's that bar that just shows dumb political messages."
- phwd 15y agoYes, system messages shouldn't be abused like this. They are supposed to be the exception not norm. Even though the message gets to the front of your attention on every single page, it would have been better if this was to be placed as a community ad or a blog post. Seeing that this is directed to the US users of Stack Overflow, I am not sure what the rest of the world should be doing other than spreading the message. To play devil's advocate, since SO has dumps of their data under CC, anyone from another country can still get the content. The community and the system of asking and answering questions are threatened, the previous data will still be around.
- jamesmoss 15y agoThis is great but surely we need to be targeting a wider audience? SO is made up of tech enthusiasts, I imagine a large percentage of them have heard of SOPA and understand the issues. However they probably represent a tiny fraction of the population. Really we need the eBay's, AOL's and Craiglist's of this world to be running campaigns like this, getting the message out to the more casual internet user.
- jim-greer 15y agoCraigslist might actually do it... I doubt AOL or eBay ever would.
- jim-greer 15y agoI tweeted to Craig Newmark and he answered positively - here's hoping: http://twitter.com/#!/craignewmark/status/141604875581657088 http://twitter.com/#!/craignewmark/status/141604875581657088
- notatoad 15y agoyou're absolutely right, stackoverflow is preaching to the choir. but at least they're saying something, kudos to them. all opposition is good. somebody else here had this idea, and i love it: facebook needs to shut down their site for an hour and replace it with the message "this is what happens if SOPA passes".
- alttag 15y agoI participated in the recent EFF push for contacting elected representatives regarding SOPA. I customized their pre-packaged letter greatly, adding both my experience and qualifications and expounding on the distrust from the tech industry to SOPA. The response from my (Republican) Congressman was a form letter telling me I was wrong, and regurgitating a the pro-SOPA talking points. I've been contemplating a rather severe letter in response, but I haven't gotten to it as I don't believe anything I can say to him will be effective.
- freehunter 15y agoMr Congressman, you have lost my vote forever. Furthermore, I will be campaigning on behalf of $OPPONENT who still believes in freedom and our greatest liberties. The fact that we have great men like $OPPONENT proves American democracy still works.
- redthrowaway 15y ago"Lost my vote forever" is, I'm sure, the kind of meaningless spiel they hear everyday. It would likely have the same effect on a congressman that saying "meat is murder" has on me - instant tune-out. A response informing the congressman of why he's wrong, citing loss of jobs and liberty while threatening innovation, all in the name of an ever-growing government keen to erode our rights in the service of special interests, would likely hit enough republican talking points to at least merit a moment's consideration. Which, at the end of the day, is probably the best you could hope for.
- freehunter 15y agoThat's assuming that this comgressman believes his talking points. I'm of the opinion that many talking points are for _other_ people to believe, but the ones saying them do not believe in them. The subject matter just doesn't affect them. Why would a politician who has been bought by Big Media care about innovation, loss of jobs/liberty, or erosion of rights? Hit them where it hurts. Threaten _their_ job. If you lose your job due to their legislation, they'll just blame their opponent and tell you to stop begging for handouts.
- TomGullen 15y agoVery good, I already had a lot of respect for SO now I have a lot more!
- smackfu 15y agoOdd they didn't do this on the day that every other site did. Or has it been up since then?
- spolsky 15y agowe're a little bit slow!
- ilaksh 15y agoThe fact that its even possible for this law to be considered should give people another hint at how dangerous and negligent our "representatives" are. Other obvious hints are apparent also, such as the Patriot Act and about 100 other things I won't mention. People just need to face reality. Its a corrupt system. The government is full of fraudsters and even mass murderers. I know its hard to accept that, but that's the truth. The other problem is that its the very structure of our government and society that creates these outcomes over and over again. We need to do some agile engineering on society, starting from base premises.
- devs1010 15y agoThe tools are there as is the platform (the Internet), its just a matter of smart people applying themselves IMO, Wikileaks was a good start, I suppose, but too radical and easy to shutdown, there are opportunities to more sustainably build on what they started. Maybe if people could turn their attention away from trying to use their engineering abilities to create crap like what Zynga does (facebook games, etc) and actually try to create some things that are worthwhile and can help society then we would be better off. Of course this doesn't happen as its not necessarily a path to becoming a millionaire and thats what most people seem to think it is important.
- brown9-2 15y agoWhat would you change about the representative form of government? Any government consisting of representatives of the people will end up proposing and debating laws that certain segments of the population sees as "bad" at times. It's a test of how well the government works if the people can voice their opinion and have an effect on Congress's debate. If this happens and curtails the law, then government is working.
- CamperBob 15y agoWhat would you change about the representative form of government? At this point, I'd probably ditch it as unworkable, and replace it with a more meritocratic, less corruptible form. It's a test of how well the government works if the people can voice their opinion and have an effect on Congress's debate. If this happens and curtails the law, then government is working. No, it isn't. SOPA is an obvious exercise in moving the Overton Window. The bill(s) that follow it -- including those that will eventually pass -- will seem innocuous by comparison, regardless of their content.
- maeon3 15y agoThe global internet is quickly becoming a more powerful entity than all the rulers in Congress. Congress will not stop trying to put a leash on it. The more powerful the internet gets, the more you will see Congress trying anything to establish control. Child pornography, digital rights, copyright, Chinese hackers, national security, containing the terrorists, fud... Congress will use military force if necessary if the global internet challenges its supreme authority as global sovreign. Which one day it will.
- bluekeybox 15y agoThese kinds of comments may scare away large numbers of level-headed people from standing up against SOPA. Do you honestly think that the emergence of a global super-entity to serve as a niche to all kinds of low-lives is a good thing? Because if you are, then a lot of people who are aware of your position will be against whatever you stand, which of course means that you will lose potentially valuable allies against SOPA. Let's stand against SOPA, but let's not get too radical while doing it. The Internet is not a savior of "the people" or a second coming of anything. No one will save us but ourselves.
- vectorpush 15y agoDo you honestly think that the emergence of a global super-entity to serve as a niche to all kinds of low-lives is a good thing? Tell us how you really feel. Don't worry though, I'm confident that the government will eventually find a way to expunge all the undesirable "low-lives" from the net.
- bluekeybox 15y agoSpreading paranoia about the government is a classic tactic of disaffected "little" people, whether they are of the right or of the left. There are plenty of things that are wrong with the government, but being paranoid and bitter is not the way to fix them.
- libraryatnight 15y ago"No one will save us but ourselves." This seems more in support of maeon3's comment than a point against.
- ryandickherber 15y agoIf we all regarded the existence of a monopoly on force to be illegitimate, immoral laws like this one would be less of a problem.
- 16s 15y agoI was once the registered DMCA agent for a large organization. All of the registered agents are listed on the US Copyright's Office website so that rights holders can look-up the names and addresses to send notices when an IP address within that organization is found to have content that is thought to be infringing (P2P, music, movies, etc). Fewer than 1 in 10 came to me (the person registered to receive the notices). Subcontractors working on behalf of rights holders would send notices to any email address that they could find. Some went to retired employees, transferred employees, etc. It got so bad that we put a comment in ARIN that specified the agent's contact address to try and stop it. Didn't work. The DMCA requires a proper notice be sent to the registered agent and grants the organization safe-harbor. It is very well defined. Here is the official list of registered agents (the one and only list... but DMCA subcontractors don't read it): http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html
- devicenull 15y agoMost of them are bots, and I doubt your note in ARIN was even being read. They seem to love to look up the abuse contact for an email address, and send their notices there. A large number of them make no attempt to find the registered agent. Sadly, this works for them, since I would imagine most ISP's just forward on the notice to the registered contact. I wonder what would happen if you ignored a DMCA notice sent to the wrong contact. Would it be invalid?
- 16s 15y agoThe entire purpose of the portion of the law (DMCA) requiring valid notices be sent to registered agents is so that notice is given to the correct person at the organization so that swift action may be taken to investigate and potentially remedy the alleged copyright violation. How else do you think the organization would know to respond? Rights holders and their subcontractors can't just email anyone in your domain (the janitor's office) and expect action to be taken. The law (DMCA) is very explicit about this. Notice must be given to the registered agent (PERIOD). However, you should ask your legal counsel what they which to do with invalid notices. Some will want the organization to respond anyway, others won't. It depends on whether or not they wish to waste money spending time following-up on invalid notices. I can tell you this though, a notice sent to janitor@domain.com is not going to stand up in court unless janitor@domain.com is indeed the registered agent. The point is that if they can't be bothered to obey the DMCA and take the time to look-up the proper published registered agent, why should new laws be considered that let them get away with even worse laziness and accusations?
- randymorris 15y agoThe whole SOPA and PROTECT IP thing is a power play to leverage the Internet community into a compromise which would allow the acceptance of a removal of anonymous internet usage.