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The evidence on the Android side doesn't seem to support this line of reasoning. There are multiple app stores on Android (including Amazon's), and sideloading

The evidence on the Android side doesn't seem to support this line of reasoning. There are multiple app stores on Android (including Amazon's), and sideloading is permitted, yet there is still a dispute over the platform fee rate that Google is charging for Google Play. At the end of the day, it's a dispute over money, and specifically the platform commission rate: developers want a bigger cut of the retail app price on Google Play.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
smoldesu 4y ago
My comment doesn't detract from that demand. What I'm pointing out is that Apple will suffer from this at a much larger scale, therefore it makes sense that they will fight tooth-and-nail to stop it. The 'platform fee' shpiel is a distraction from the real problem: iOS must allow alternative storefronts if it wants to survive long-term antitrust scrutiny. There is no other logical outcome.
- musicale 4y ago
  That may indeed be true. However, the core dispute over App Store fees will likely remain, irrespective of additional app stores or sideloading, just as it has on Google Play. Solving the single app store antitrust issue doesn't solve the platform fee dispute.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Do you truly think antitrust scrutiny will stop if Apple lowers their rates again? I don't think that's all developers hate about the App Store...
  - chii 4y ago
    it does, because those who don't want to pay the platform fee would move off to the other store-front (and not use any services provided by the apple appstore).
saurik 4y ago
The arguments on Android are sometimes even simpler to make (which I appreciate might not be intuitive at all), as there is a space where there SHOULD be competition and clearly CAN BE competition and yet there are arguments being made that Google is going out of their way to stifle this competition regardless, by such techniques as limiting the functionality of third-party markets (a big one was preventing them from supporting automatic upgrades), or their included anti-virus software flagging alternative markets (which reminds me that I haven't caught up on the Epic lawsuit against Google recently, and really really should).
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  You'll find me ranting about making a non-system permission for automatic updates on Android for years on this forum. Now it's there, and I credit Epic.
josephcsible 4y ago
While Android is more open than iOS in that alternative app sources are allowed, it's still far from a level playing field. The Play Store has special privileges that third-party ones don't, such as being able to automatically update apps, rather than forcing the user to hit "install" for each individual app to be updated.
- modeless 4y ago
  This information is outdated. Android 12+ allows alternative stores to update apps automatically.
  - dietr1ch 4y ago
    But manufacturers are holding users back on old Android versions
modeless 4y ago
Your reasoning is faulty. There is no Android platform fee for app developers. In fact, alternative Android stores pay no fees at all. The Play Store has fees, and there's a dispute about them, but that doesn't make it analogous to the situation on iOS, which really has an iOS platform fee because it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission.
- fingerlocks 4y ago
  You can install whatever you want on an iPhone if you’re willing to compile it yourself with one or two shell commands. You do need access to a Mac. Contrary to popular belief, you can even install a non-safari browser: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/ios/build_instructions.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/i...
  - cowtools 4y ago
    >Code signing identity >Please refer to the Apple documentation on how to get a code signing identity and certificates. You can check that you have a code signing identity correctly installed by running the following command. It has a secure chain of trust in the sense that the machine is secured against user control. Face, meet boot.
    - fingerlocks 4y ago
      Ok? Doesn’t change what I wrote. You can install the cert and profile in a few minutes.
      - cowtools 4y ago
        modeless: it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission. fingerlocks: here, just run these two easy commands to ask apple for their ongoing permission!
        4y ago
tomByrer 4y ago
But like Windows having IE/Edge installed by default (& being sued for it), Google Play is the default store for Android, & 95% of public doesn't know otherwise.
- kbenson 4y ago
  To be fair (pedantic? devil's advocate?) Samsung ships all their phones with the Samsung store as well. I suspect there's a few other bit names that do similar. A great many Android users have alternative stores, some some probably use them without knowing the difference as well. To be honest, I doubt many of them care, given all they want is apps from a trusted source, and most people probably trust Samsung if they are buying Samsung phones with specialized Android builds made by Samsung, if they even know the difference.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

smoldesu 4y ago

My comment doesn't detract from that demand. What I'm pointing out is that Apple will suffer from this at a much larger scale, therefore it makes sense that they will fight tooth-and-nail to stop it. The 'platform fee' shpiel is a distraction from the real problem: iOS must allow alternative storefronts if it wants to survive long-term antitrust scrutiny. There is no other logical outcome.

musicale 4y ago
That may indeed be true. However, the core dispute over App Store fees will likely remain, irrespective of additional app stores or sideloading, just as it has on Google Play. Solving the single app store antitrust issue doesn't solve the platform fee dispute.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Do you truly think antitrust scrutiny will stop if Apple lowers their rates again? I don't think that's all developers hate about the App Store...
- chii 4y ago
  it does, because those who don't want to pay the platform fee would move off to the other store-front (and not use any services provided by the apple appstore).

saurik 4y ago

The arguments on Android are sometimes even simpler to make (which I appreciate might not be intuitive at all), as there is a space where there SHOULD be competition and clearly CAN BE competition and yet there are arguments being made that Google is going out of their way to stifle this competition regardless, by such techniques as limiting the functionality of third-party markets (a big one was preventing them from supporting automatic upgrades), or their included anti-virus software flagging alternative markets (which reminds me that I haven't caught up on the Epic lawsuit against Google recently, and really really should).

lern_too_spel 4y ago
You'll find me ranting about making a non-system permission for automatic updates on Android for years on this forum. Now it's there, and I credit Epic.

josephcsible 4y ago

While Android is more open than iOS in that alternative app sources are allowed, it's still far from a level playing field. The Play Store has special privileges that third-party ones don't, such as being able to automatically update apps, rather than forcing the user to hit "install" for each individual app to be updated.

modeless 4y ago
This information is outdated. Android 12+ allows alternative stores to update apps automatically.
- dietr1ch 4y ago
  But manufacturers are holding users back on old Android versions

modeless 4y ago

Your reasoning is faulty. There is no Android platform fee for app developers. In fact, alternative Android stores pay no fees at all. The Play Store has fees, and there's a dispute about them, but that doesn't make it analogous to the situation on iOS, which really has an iOS platform fee because it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission.

fingerlocks 4y ago
You can install whatever you want on an iPhone if you’re willing to compile it yourself with one or two shell commands. You do need access to a Mac. Contrary to popular belief, you can even install a non-safari browser: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/ios/build_instructions.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/i...
- cowtools 4y ago
  >Code signing identity >Please refer to the Apple documentation on how to get a code signing identity and certificates. You can check that you have a code signing identity correctly installed by running the following command. It has a secure chain of trust in the sense that the machine is secured against user control. Face, meet boot.
  - fingerlocks 4y ago
    Ok? Doesn’t change what I wrote. You can install the cert and profile in a few minutes.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      modeless: it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission. fingerlocks: here, just run these two easy commands to ask apple for their ongoing permission!
      - 4y ago

tomByrer 4y ago

But like Windows having IE/Edge installed by default (& being sued for it), Google Play is the default store for Android, & 95% of public doesn't know otherwise.

kbenson 4y ago
To be fair (pedantic? devil's advocate?) Samsung ships all their phones with the Samsung store as well. I suspect there's a few other bit names that do similar. A great many Android users have alternative stores, some some probably use them without knowing the difference as well. To be honest, I doubt many of them care, given all they want is apps from a trusted source, and most people probably trust Samsung if they are buying Samsung phones with specialized Android builds made by Samsung, if they even know the difference.