8 ms·

This makes it easier for my technicians when customers lie by omission when they have had their device repaired someplace else and they bring it back to us for

This makes it easier for my technicians when customers lie by omission when they have had their device repaired someplace else and they bring it back to us for repair. It's not until we get into the repair and find out someone has stripped screws that can't be removed without extraction tools and replaced LSI's. It's also nice for consumers who get their devices stolen strictly for parts. Preventing someone from basically chop shopping phones. I don't use iphone's but it's a nice feature. If the parts are serialized they could prevent your stolen iphone's camera from working in someone else's stolen iphone. Essentially locking the parts to a iphone that locked by an appleid.

tjoff 4y ago
The first part doesn't require functionality to be disabled though.
- buildbot 4y ago
  Probably a combination of missing calibrations and the software locking. It seems better to fail visibly than to have a device silently phoning home that it is non-genuine.
Veliladon 4y ago
The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components. Like when you take it into a repair shop, how do you know that the replacement part isn't compromised? If I was replacing the front facing FaceID complex I sure as hell would want verifiable Apple gear and it to be paired to the phone. Why would I want some random person to be able to put something in my phone's biometric authentication path?
- buildbot 4y ago
  This exactly. To have a more secure device this is one of the trade offs. Can you imagine the articles if you could swap out faceID systems to unlock an encrypted iphone?
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    - pb7 4y ago
      You are at liberty to buy other products and leave these to those who are happy about the security considerations.
      - stale2002 4y ago
        Hey, if Apple doesn't want to follow the new Right to Repair laws, then it can shutdown the company or move to a different country. They have an obligation to follow the law as much as any other company.
      - sennight 4y ago
        You know, I bet somebody responded very similarly to a complaint about the first game studio to put loot boxes in their games. Now we are plagued by them. "Don't like it? Well just make your own ____!" is another classic.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        eropple 4y ago
        If you play AAA games or mobile games, sure, you're plagued by them. I don't play either. The games I do play don't have much in the way of that sort of thing at all. And I think they're more fun games besides.
        sennight 4y ago
        I don't understand your point, which effectively seems to be "not all games!" This is actually a zero sum scenario, games that are pay-to-win would have been something else had the concept not been popularized. Even games that are completely structured around these gambling mechanics... no, they wouldn't necessarily be different games in an alternate reality - they'd just be a different use of the dev's time. So maybe a birdhouse. Also, if this was a derail attempt - well done, I'm now thinking about carpentry instead of how much I dislike Apple.
- tjoff 4y ago
  If you give your phone to an adversary with large amounts of resources it is game over. If you have to worry about that I most certainly would hope that you wouldn't leave your phone to a repair-shop.
  - sosull 4y ago
    It’s a very fair point, but stranger things have happened. Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers...
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Everyone keeps parroting this like it's 1995 but infinite resources doesn't really help you. In the US FBI case they happened to chain a few now patched exploits in the lightning port that did nothing except allow them the ability to brute force the password. Had the password been strong it would have been game over. Regular, run of the mill encryption you can download at every corner store can withstand attacks from nation states.
    - chasd00 4y ago
      well, depending on the adversary, the resources required could be trivial. https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png
    - solardev 4y ago
      Zero-days are a thing, as well as companies that find them specifically to sell to governments
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    Or leave your MacBook at a repair shop with texts and emails to various VIPs, etc on it… oh wait.
- lofaszvanitt 4y ago
  Do you actually believe that nation states with shitton level funding can't waltz in and out of an original iPhone?
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    Maybe? But shouldn't we (and Apple) at least try to make things more secure?
- baybal2 4y ago
  > The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components. Reflashing serial numbers of common i2c chips is routine, and not "harder." It basically only deters self-taught repair shop owners, without electronics background.
- _V_ 4y ago
  How does disabling TrueTone/autobrightness help your security? Or vibration motor? Or battery? Or rear facing camera? I can answer for you: these are completely unrelated to security. It is just a middle finger from Apple to anyone wanting to repair their device. edit: typo
shuntress 4y ago
You are conflating separate concerns. Tracking serial numbers to black-list stolen parts (too much effort for too little value IMO but I'm not a bean counter for a nation-state-sized corporation so what do I know?) is very different from white-listing ordained parts. Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops.
- dwaite 4y ago
  > Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops. I assume in this scenario that all independent shops are trustworthy entities that won't use stolen, reclaimed, or third-party parts in order to save money, without informing the customer?
  - shuntress 4y ago
    Nothing exists in a vacuum. Tracking stolen phones and busting chop shops is probably something that should be handled by law enforcement.
    - newtritious 4y ago
      Until it is, Apple are serving their customers by protecting them from this problem.
      - shuntress 4y ago
        I am much more likely to need a phone serviced than have a phone stolen. Apple should protect me from a repair monopoly overcharging just enough such that a new device (also sold by said monopoly) looks more appealing than a repair.
        newtritious 4y ago
        They are also protecting you against repair shops using substandard parts, and compromising device security. The claim about them doing this to make you buy a new device is made up.
pbhjpbhj 4y ago
You can sign things without locking them though. The utility you're speaking of is identification, what's the utility for a user in locking a device against repair? Apple probably report way more data than a list of part IDs already.
bogwog 4y ago
> It's also nice for consumers who get their devices stolen strictly for parts. Preventing someone from basically chop shopping phones. I don't use iphone's but it's a nice feature. If the parts are serialized they could prevent your stolen iphone's camera from working in someone else's stolen iphone. Essentially locking the parts to a iphone that locked by an appleid. A notification that says "this iPhone has stolen parts", some cooperation with the police, etc. could all work without locking down the part. There are a million ways to do it that don't involve destroying the planet and stomping on consumer rights. Also, getting past the serial number lock isn't that hard. It's hard for the typical random asshole who steals phones, but not for someone knowledgeable enough to buy stolen phones to do repairs. Just search for "iphone screen programmer" on eBay and you'll find them selling for around ~$90. $90 + an aftermarket screen is still less than what Apple charges for a repair, DIY or not.

tjoff 4y ago

The first part doesn't require functionality to be disabled though.

buildbot 4y ago
Probably a combination of missing calibrations and the software locking. It seems better to fail visibly than to have a device silently phoning home that it is non-genuine.

Veliladon 4y ago

The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components. Like when you take it into a repair shop, how do you know that the replacement part isn't compromised? If I was replacing the front facing FaceID complex I sure as hell would want verifiable Apple gear and it to be paired to the phone. Why would I want some random person to be able to put something in my phone's biometric authentication path?

buildbot 4y ago
This exactly. To have a more secure device this is one of the trade offs. Can you imagine the articles if you could swap out faceID systems to unlock an encrypted iphone?
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  - pb7 4y ago
    You are at liberty to buy other products and leave these to those who are happy about the security considerations.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      Hey, if Apple doesn't want to follow the new Right to Repair laws, then it can shutdown the company or move to a different country. They have an obligation to follow the law as much as any other company.
    - sennight 4y ago
      You know, I bet somebody responded very similarly to a complaint about the first game studio to put loot boxes in their games. Now we are plagued by them. "Don't like it? Well just make your own ____!" is another classic.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - eropple 4y ago
        If you play AAA games or mobile games, sure, you're plagued by them. I don't play either. The games I do play don't have much in the way of that sort of thing at all. And I think they're more fun games besides.
        sennight 4y ago
        I don't understand your point, which effectively seems to be "not all games!" This is actually a zero sum scenario, games that are pay-to-win would have been something else had the concept not been popularized. Even games that are completely structured around these gambling mechanics... no, they wouldn't necessarily be different games in an alternate reality - they'd just be a different use of the dev's time. So maybe a birdhouse. Also, if this was a derail attempt - well done, I'm now thinking about carpentry instead of how much I dislike Apple.
tjoff 4y ago
If you give your phone to an adversary with large amounts of resources it is game over. If you have to worry about that I most certainly would hope that you wouldn't leave your phone to a repair-shop.
- sosull 4y ago
  It’s a very fair point, but stranger things have happened. Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers...
- Spivak 4y ago
  Everyone keeps parroting this like it's 1995 but infinite resources doesn't really help you. In the US FBI case they happened to chain a few now patched exploits in the lightning port that did nothing except allow them the ability to brute force the password. Had the password been strong it would have been game over. Regular, run of the mill encryption you can download at every corner store can withstand attacks from nation states.
  - chasd00 4y ago
    well, depending on the adversary, the resources required could be trivial. https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png
  - solardev 4y ago
    Zero-days are a thing, as well as companies that find them specifically to sell to governments
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  Or leave your MacBook at a repair shop with texts and emails to various VIPs, etc on it… oh wait.
lofaszvanitt 4y ago
Do you actually believe that nation states with shitton level funding can't waltz in and out of an original iPhone?
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  Maybe? But shouldn't we (and Apple) at least try to make things more secure?
baybal2 4y ago
> The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components. Reflashing serial numbers of common i2c chips is routine, and not "harder." It basically only deters self-taught repair shop owners, without electronics background.
_V_ 4y ago
How does disabling TrueTone/autobrightness help your security? Or vibration motor? Or battery? Or rear facing camera? I can answer for you: these are completely unrelated to security. It is just a middle finger from Apple to anyone wanting to repair their device. edit: typo

shuntress 4y ago

You are conflating separate concerns. Tracking serial numbers to black-list stolen parts (too much effort for too little value IMO but I'm not a bean counter for a nation-state-sized corporation so what do I know?) is very different from white-listing ordained parts. Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops.

dwaite 4y ago
> Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops. I assume in this scenario that all independent shops are trustworthy entities that won't use stolen, reclaimed, or third-party parts in order to save money, without informing the customer?
- shuntress 4y ago
  Nothing exists in a vacuum. Tracking stolen phones and busting chop shops is probably something that should be handled by law enforcement.
  - newtritious 4y ago
    Until it is, Apple are serving their customers by protecting them from this problem.
    - shuntress 4y ago
      I am much more likely to need a phone serviced than have a phone stolen. Apple should protect me from a repair monopoly overcharging just enough such that a new device (also sold by said monopoly) looks more appealing than a repair.
      - newtritious 4y ago
        They are also protecting you against repair shops using substandard parts, and compromising device security. The claim about them doing this to make you buy a new device is made up.

pbhjpbhj 4y ago

You can sign things without locking them though. The utility you're speaking of is identification, what's the utility for a user in locking a device against repair? Apple probably report way more data than a list of part IDs already.

bogwog 4y ago

> It's also nice for consumers who get their devices stolen strictly for parts. Preventing someone from basically chop shopping phones. I don't use iphone's but it's a nice feature. If the parts are serialized they could prevent your stolen iphone's camera from working in someone else's stolen iphone. Essentially locking the parts to a iphone that locked by an appleid. A notification that says "this iPhone has stolen parts", some cooperation with the police, etc. could all work without locking down the part. There are a million ways to do it that don't involve destroying the planet and stomping on consumer rights. Also, getting past the serial number lock isn't that hard. It's hard for the typical random asshole who steals phones, but not for someone knowledgeable enough to buy stolen phones to do repairs. Just search for "iphone screen programmer" on eBay and you'll find them selling for around ~$90. $90 + an aftermarket screen is still less than what Apple charges for a repair, DIY or not.