4 ms·

Growing up in the early-80's, my parents were diehard Zenith customers. "They make the best TVs" was something I heard often from them. I was just a young boy,

by hvs 4y ago

Growing up in the early-80's, my parents were diehard Zenith customers. "They make the best TVs" was something I heard often from them. I was just a young boy, but a few things stand out in retrospect: 1) Zenith was likely a very popular brand in their Boomer households in the 50's and 60's. 2) This was an age when there were still "Television Repair Stores" where you would take your TV when it failed for some reason. These probably leaned towards US-built brands. 3) There was probably not a small amount of "Made in the U.S.A." boosterism by my parents going on. The 80's was a decade when "fear of Japan taking over everything" was very common.

Mezzie 4y ago
Point 2 is interesting, because one of the reason that foreign-manufactured TVs came to prominence is because they were cheap enough + reliable enough that TVs could functionally be a disposable good. Another is that right during the late 80s/early 90s is when TVs started showing substantial improvements every ~5 years, whereas things were more static in the early 80s and before, which meant that instead of repairing an old TV, you could buy a new one that was substantially better than your old one. Basically the TV market turned from being similar to the car market to the computer market. Interestingly, I think we may be heading back in some ways, as the improvements/"upgrades" on TVs are slowing down, and there's also a growing anti-waste movement + a squeezed poor/lower class. I wouldn't be surprised if TV repair makes a comeback. (My grandfather repaired TVs.)
- hedora 4y ago
  Old TV's had consumable, user-replacible components (the tubes), and were unreliable due to being hand wired. I don't see the industry moving back to either of those things. These days, the repairable parts are likely to out last the display anyway. I don't see TV repair becoming common again. I could imagine them encouraging recycling (and local shopping) by adding a "core" fee like they do for lead acid batteries.
  - kmbfjr 4y ago
    Their replacements were far less reliable because the ICs were socketed, not soldered onto the board. My old man regularly opened the back of his 1980 RCA to “crack knuckles”…firmly seat ICs that had lifted up from the DIP sockets. The unreliable nature of tube NTSC color TVs was entirely the fault of tubes being pushed to their limits and the need for 600 volt plate supplies.
    - hakfoo 4y ago
      I thought that there was some definite economization-to-death in the later years. From like 1995 until their demise, was there any meaningful enhancement to NTSC tube TVs? There were minor enhancements in on-screen display, flatter glass fronts, and maybe the addition of S-video inputs, but there wasn't really much that could be leveraged as a "premium" set that could demand a higher margin except for maybe a Sony Trinitron. There was no meaningful "Replace your 720-line set with a 1080- or 2160-line one" sales pitch. The obvious way to compete is to go full Madman Muntz and cut every possible corner. I recall in the early 2000s a fairly newish (at the time) RCA 27" tube release the magic smoke, and the discussion on sci.electronics.repair was very much "oh, that chassis design is all but guaranteed to fail catastropically when it does fail, may as well buy a new set". I don't doubt that group had several thousand man-years of repair experience, and they had very little positive to say for any set made after the Carter administration.
  - jmbwell 4y ago
    Yeah, inside the enclosure of a modern TV is an LCD panel connected to a board the size of a raspberry pi that holds a SOC and some input connectors. There just isn't anything to be repaired. The minimum unit of replacement is the entire unit.
    - nyanpasu64 4y ago
      Hmm, my family once replaced our LG 1080p TV's mainboard after the HDMI ports failed, then the TV stopped powering on past the splash screen at all. The built-in content apps (the early days of smart TVs before they turned into a surveillance capitalism hellscape) are dead, and 1080p non-HDR is obsolete for pixel-peepers, but for our limited use, the screen still works just fine.
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  What changed is that TVs are no longer primarily being used to watch broadcast television. Nowadays a television is used to watch Netflix and to play videogames on.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    You'd imagine this would drive a resurgence in "dumb" monitors, but no, monitoring viewing using fingerprinting is too valuable.
- autoexec 4y ago
  It's not that TVs are so cheap that they are disposable, but rather that repairs are so expensive that you might as well just replace the whole thing. Even when all you'd need are some inexpensive parts the cost of parts + service just to get am extra year or two out of a TV before something else fails (as they are designed to do) is less attractive than just replacing the device.
jimbokun 4y ago
> The 80's was a decade when "fear of Japan taking over everything" was very common. What an outdated, parochial view of the world. Everyone knows China's taking over everything.
- tuatoru 4y ago
  And in the '40s, it'll be "India's taking over everything". And in the '60s, "Nigeria's taking over everything". Demographics is the least cloudy crystal ball.
busterarm 4y ago
Zenith TVs were pretty great but I don't recall any Made in America-ism around them. The only comparable/better TVs were Sony Trinitrons and they were more expensive. I owned some of both. The last TV repair store in Manhattan (NYC) closed up around 2007. It was on 14th St around 1st or Ave A on the south side of the street. I'd had a beloved Zenith TV repaired there just a few years prior. There's still a guy in California who repairs the broadcast monitor versions of Sony Trinitrons, which were still in pr. He's retired, but has a bunch of parts and still repairs these monitors (mostly for gamers) to keep busy. Sony stopped producting those tubes in 2004. Interestingly, Sony's Trinitron equipment ended up getting sold to a company in India that's recycling CRTs. I believe they also tried making new ones but it turns out making quality tubes is practically an artform and requires deep skill that nobody left working has.

by hvs 4y ago

Mezzie 4y ago

Point 2 is interesting, because one of the reason that foreign-manufactured TVs came to prominence is because they were cheap enough + reliable enough that TVs could functionally be a disposable good. Another is that right during the late 80s/early 90s is when TVs started showing substantial improvements every ~5 years, whereas things were more static in the early 80s and before, which meant that instead of repairing an old TV, you could buy a new one that was substantially better than your old one. Basically the TV market turned from being similar to the car market to the computer market. Interestingly, I think we may be heading back in some ways, as the improvements/"upgrades" on TVs are slowing down, and there's also a growing anti-waste movement + a squeezed poor/lower class. I wouldn't be surprised if TV repair makes a comeback. (My grandfather repaired TVs.)

hedora 4y ago
Old TV's had consumable, user-replacible components (the tubes), and were unreliable due to being hand wired. I don't see the industry moving back to either of those things. These days, the repairable parts are likely to out last the display anyway. I don't see TV repair becoming common again. I could imagine them encouraging recycling (and local shopping) by adding a "core" fee like they do for lead acid batteries.
- kmbfjr 4y ago
  Their replacements were far less reliable because the ICs were socketed, not soldered onto the board. My old man regularly opened the back of his 1980 RCA to “crack knuckles”…firmly seat ICs that had lifted up from the DIP sockets. The unreliable nature of tube NTSC color TVs was entirely the fault of tubes being pushed to their limits and the need for 600 volt plate supplies.
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    I thought that there was some definite economization-to-death in the later years. From like 1995 until their demise, was there any meaningful enhancement to NTSC tube TVs? There were minor enhancements in on-screen display, flatter glass fronts, and maybe the addition of S-video inputs, but there wasn't really much that could be leveraged as a "premium" set that could demand a higher margin except for maybe a Sony Trinitron. There was no meaningful "Replace your 720-line set with a 1080- or 2160-line one" sales pitch. The obvious way to compete is to go full Madman Muntz and cut every possible corner. I recall in the early 2000s a fairly newish (at the time) RCA 27" tube release the magic smoke, and the discussion on sci.electronics.repair was very much "oh, that chassis design is all but guaranteed to fail catastropically when it does fail, may as well buy a new set". I don't doubt that group had several thousand man-years of repair experience, and they had very little positive to say for any set made after the Carter administration.
- jmbwell 4y ago
  Yeah, inside the enclosure of a modern TV is an LCD panel connected to a board the size of a raspberry pi that holds a SOC and some input connectors. There just isn't anything to be repaired. The minimum unit of replacement is the entire unit.
  - nyanpasu64 4y ago
    Hmm, my family once replaced our LG 1080p TV's mainboard after the HDMI ports failed, then the TV stopped powering on past the splash screen at all. The built-in content apps (the early days of smart TVs before they turned into a surveillance capitalism hellscape) are dead, and 1080p non-HDR is obsolete for pixel-peepers, but for our limited use, the screen still works just fine.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
What changed is that TVs are no longer primarily being used to watch broadcast television. Nowadays a television is used to watch Netflix and to play videogames on.
- Terretta 4y ago
  You'd imagine this would drive a resurgence in "dumb" monitors, but no, monitoring viewing using fingerprinting is too valuable.
autoexec 4y ago
It's not that TVs are so cheap that they are disposable, but rather that repairs are so expensive that you might as well just replace the whole thing. Even when all you'd need are some inexpensive parts the cost of parts + service just to get am extra year or two out of a TV before something else fails (as they are designed to do) is less attractive than just replacing the device.

jimbokun 4y ago

> The 80's was a decade when "fear of Japan taking over everything" was very common. What an outdated, parochial view of the world. Everyone knows China's taking over everything.

tuatoru 4y ago
And in the '40s, it'll be "India's taking over everything". And in the '60s, "Nigeria's taking over everything". Demographics is the least cloudy crystal ball.

busterarm 4y ago

Zenith TVs were pretty great but I don't recall any Made in America-ism around them. The only comparable/better TVs were Sony Trinitrons and they were more expensive. I owned some of both. The last TV repair store in Manhattan (NYC) closed up around 2007. It was on 14th St around 1st or Ave A on the south side of the street. I'd had a beloved Zenith TV repaired there just a few years prior. There's still a guy in California who repairs the broadcast monitor versions of Sony Trinitrons, which were still in pr. He's retired, but has a bunch of parts and still repairs these monitors (mostly for gamers) to keep busy. Sony stopped producting those tubes in 2004. Interestingly, Sony's Trinitron equipment ended up getting sold to a company in India that's recycling CRTs. I believe they also tried making new ones but it turns out making quality tubes is practically an artform and requires deep skill that nobody left working has.