4 ms·

'Everyone'? Perhaps if the US was Germany levels of selective in University admittance and Germany levels of efficient in the administration of the various deg

'Everyone'? Perhaps if the US was Germany levels of selective in University admittance and Germany levels of efficient in the administration of the various degree paths, costs in the US would look more like Germany. There are more options in the US, all those choices have costs that make the US more expensive.

SkyBelow 4y ago
>if the US was Germany levels of selective in University admittance I only ever seen people bring up the cost of university in Europe such as Germany's free system but never the other differences. I'm beginning to think most people only know about the cost difference and don't realize there are many other differences, and by the time someone points out those differences (and how they relate to cost) the person has already formed an opinion which disagrees with the new information and thus choose to ignore it.
- aqme28 4y ago
  What are the differences then? I literally went to university in Germany and don't know what these significant differences are.
  - AvocadoPanic 4y ago
    How were you selected for admittance? How many of your cohort had to complete remedial math and German before being able to perform the math and German for their degree program? How much support was provided for those struggling academicly? What's the administrator/faculty ratio at your university? How many of the administrators have diversity, equity or inclusion or similar in their title? How many different courses could you use to fulfill the same requirement of your degree program? How long was the leisure river constructed in the shape of the University's initials? This one is kind of egregious, but most will have an expensive stupid something. Human capital is a big difference between Germany and the US. My wife attended medical school in Germany. Her year, veterinary was more competitive due to higher demand. If you select for the top n% and demand excellence lots of things are easier and cheaper. What was the dropout rate from your program? Lots of money is flushed down the toilet in the US, but the university already got paid so there's not much incentive. Much of the noise around affordability still ensures the university gets paid.
    - aqme28 4y ago
      Maybe just because it was a competitive STEM program, but nothing you mentioned differed from American university programs, with the possible exception of diversity requirements which I was privileged enough to not notice. The application was more straightforward than for American schools, and because it was a competitive applied math degree, no remedial math was given. I also don't think much help would much have been given if I had say failed quals in an American university. Requirements were a little obnoxious but they're being improved and the year after me has a much easier time. No idea what a leisure river is.
      - AvocadoPanic 4y ago
        https://www.wbrz.com/news/lsu-promotes-newly-opened-leisure-pool-/ https://www.wbrz.com/news/lsu-promotes-newly-opened-leisure-... Remedial math (algebra) is often required even for the cohort getting useless degrees. Which program / university would admit this cohort in Germany? In the US everyone who applies will be admitted somewhere. Pushing this cohort through their program adds costs that everyone bears. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureaucrats-and-buildings-the-case-for-why-college-is-so-expensive/?sh=4c562d63456a https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureau...
      - SkyBelow 4y ago
        There are different programs in the US as well, including competitive ones which will cover the full cost of college (some do have income limits, but they are generally quite high). Generally when we are talking college costs we aren't talking about the subset of competitive programs in the US that don't have a cost. For example of the difference, look at the per capital rate of school students going to university in both countries. It can be a bit messy to compare because you need to break down different routes. University not being the same as trade school which is not the same as apprenticing, though sometimes these will be lumped together in different ways. Last time I looked it up the acceptance criteria to get into university in Germany was stricter than the US. Not necessarily if you are looking at the really good schools, but those often have scholarships that work on a combination of academics and need based, but for a degree in general. There is also the issue of in state vs out of state in the US, where an out of state can be double or more the price compared to instate. Rarely is out of state a requirement, it is a personal preference and one that costs greatly if the difference isn't covered by a scholarship.

SkyBelow 4y ago

>if the US was Germany levels of selective in University admittance I only ever seen people bring up the cost of university in Europe such as Germany's free system but never the other differences. I'm beginning to think most people only know about the cost difference and don't realize there are many other differences, and by the time someone points out those differences (and how they relate to cost) the person has already formed an opinion which disagrees with the new information and thus choose to ignore it.

aqme28 4y ago
What are the differences then? I literally went to university in Germany and don't know what these significant differences are.
- AvocadoPanic 4y ago
  How were you selected for admittance? How many of your cohort had to complete remedial math and German before being able to perform the math and German for their degree program? How much support was provided for those struggling academicly? What's the administrator/faculty ratio at your university? How many of the administrators have diversity, equity or inclusion or similar in their title? How many different courses could you use to fulfill the same requirement of your degree program? How long was the leisure river constructed in the shape of the University's initials? This one is kind of egregious, but most will have an expensive stupid something. Human capital is a big difference between Germany and the US. My wife attended medical school in Germany. Her year, veterinary was more competitive due to higher demand. If you select for the top n% and demand excellence lots of things are easier and cheaper. What was the dropout rate from your program? Lots of money is flushed down the toilet in the US, but the university already got paid so there's not much incentive. Much of the noise around affordability still ensures the university gets paid.
  - aqme28 4y ago
    Maybe just because it was a competitive STEM program, but nothing you mentioned differed from American university programs, with the possible exception of diversity requirements which I was privileged enough to not notice. The application was more straightforward than for American schools, and because it was a competitive applied math degree, no remedial math was given. I also don't think much help would much have been given if I had say failed quals in an American university. Requirements were a little obnoxious but they're being improved and the year after me has a much easier time. No idea what a leisure river is.
    - AvocadoPanic 4y ago
      https://www.wbrz.com/news/lsu-promotes-newly-opened-leisure-pool-/ https://www.wbrz.com/news/lsu-promotes-newly-opened-leisure-... Remedial math (algebra) is often required even for the cohort getting useless degrees. Which program / university would admit this cohort in Germany? In the US everyone who applies will be admitted somewhere. Pushing this cohort through their program adds costs that everyone bears. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureaucrats-and-buildings-the-case-for-why-college-is-so-expensive/?sh=4c562d63456a https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureau...
    - SkyBelow 4y ago
      There are different programs in the US as well, including competitive ones which will cover the full cost of college (some do have income limits, but they are generally quite high). Generally when we are talking college costs we aren't talking about the subset of competitive programs in the US that don't have a cost. For example of the difference, look at the per capital rate of school students going to university in both countries. It can be a bit messy to compare because you need to break down different routes. University not being the same as trade school which is not the same as apprenticing, though sometimes these will be lumped together in different ways. Last time I looked it up the acceptance criteria to get into university in Germany was stricter than the US. Not necessarily if you are looking at the really good schools, but those often have scholarships that work on a combination of academics and need based, but for a degree in general. There is also the issue of in state vs out of state in the US, where an out of state can be double or more the price compared to instate. Rarely is out of state a requirement, it is a personal preference and one that costs greatly if the difference isn't covered by a scholarship.