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I'm not sure if the people here who say Tokyo is not affordable are reading the article. Tokyo is affordable compared to similar cities like NYC. Tokyo built 13

I'm not sure if the people here who say Tokyo is not affordable are reading the article. Tokyo is affordable compared to similar cities like NYC. Tokyo built 130,000 new homes vs NYC's 30,000 in 2020. Tokyo's average home price is $300,000 compared to NYC's at $778,000+.

marcinzm 4y ago
I just Googled those claims. Comparing the average house price of the Greater Tokyo Metropolitan Area (5200 mi^2) to NYC (472.43 mi^2) is really a biased comparison. I suspect the houses built metric is similarly taken out of context possibly due to houses being torn down (more common in Japan than the US) meaning there's isn't as much of a net new home build up.
- anovikov 4y ago
  Maybe this is the whole point. Tokyo has public transport system that makes commute across such a vast area possible, and this is what explains property prices.
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    There is a whole NYC Metropolitan Area which spans 4669 mi^2.
    - hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
      What is the average home price in the "whole NYC Metropolitan Area"?
      - marcinzm 4y ago
        You're free to do that research, I posted not to make any specific argument but simply to point out that making out of context claims isn't cool.
        hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
        I did do my research. "The median home sale price in New York City as of Quarter 2 was $767K, a 0% change year-over-year. A total of 11489 homes traded, a mere -1% difference compared to the same month last year. In Quarter 2, the median price per square foot was $979, a 6% YoY change. The median home sale price in Manhattan was $1.2M." https://www.propertyshark.com/mason/market-trends/residential/nyc-all https://www.propertyshark.com/mason/market-trends/residentia... "A survey conducted by Recruit of people who bought newly constructed detached houses in the Tokyo metropolitan area in 2021 found that the average purchase price was ¥43.3 million, the highest level since the survey began in 2014." https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01311/#:~:text=A%20survey%20conducted%20by%20Recruit,the%20survey%20began%20in%202014 https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01311/#:~:text=A%20sur.... "In September 2020, the average listing price for a newly constructed detached wooden house in Tokyo of between 100-sqm and 300-sqm (1,076 sqft and 3,229 sqft) was: Greater Tokyo Area: ¥36,850,000 ($354,000) Tokyo (23 Wards + Western Suburbs): ¥42,880,000 ($412,000) Tokyo 23 Wards: ¥59,410,000 ($570,000) Tokyo western suburbs: ¥40,110,000 ($385,000)" https://resources.realestate.co.jp/news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-buy-a-house-in-tokyo-october-2020-update/ https://resources.realestate.co.jp/news/how-much-does-it-cos...
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    It's a good point you bring up, if you have a bigger area but you can get to everywhere within the same time it doesn't really matter what the area is. They should provide isochrone maps of both cities to give that argument any substance though!
donw 4y ago
I call bullshit. First off, I’m willing to bet that the size of the Tokyo home is half or less compared to the New York option. There are “cheap homes” in Tokyo. They are effectively unlivable by modern standards, and when a Japanese person buys one, they do so to tear it down and build something new. If you do this, all of that is money wasted. The full value of your home will depreciate after 22 years. It only makes sense to buy if you never plan on selling. Or leaving.
- hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
  The figures cited for Tokyo are for "newly constructed homes" "The average price of a newly constructed house in the Tokyo area was ¥43.3 million. In central Tokyo, it was ¥60.6 million."
  - donw 4y ago
    This is a JPY ~80M home in Nerima, one of the cheapest, and remotest, districts in Tokyo: https://www.athome.co.jp/kodate/1013825667/?DOWN=1&BKLISTID=001LIP&SEARCHDIV=1&sref=list_simple https://www.athome.co.jp/kodate/1013825667/?DOWN=1&BKLISTID=... The lot is 100 sqm (1000 sqft) the home is about the same, over two stories. Each bedroom is roughly half of what you would expect in an American home. The kitchen has effectively zero counter space. This is quite common in Japanese construction. For 60M, you’re going to end up at something like 3/4 of that. Without checking, I’m willing to bet that standalone houses in the New York area are larger for the money. Do keep in mind that Japanese homes are designed to last precisely 22 years. So, after 22 years, each of these homes will be worth nothing more than the land they sit on.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      > last precisely 22 years This is myth believed for unknown reason. Let's see many people sign up 35yr house loan.
- mellavora 4y ago
  tokyo home is 1/2 the size of US. Perhaps. How does that equate to "unlivable"? Perhaps it is the US homes which are too large? Compare 1980 and after McMansions with a standard US home from the 1950-70s urban build-out. Why should a house be an appreciating asset? With reference to current US building standards which are NOT based on long-term structural integrity. A car depreciates much faster than 22 years, yet that doesn't seem a waste. What is the depreciation rate on your laptop? Your claim of "bullshit" only holds if you assume current US cultural norms are the one true way.

marcinzm 4y ago

I just Googled those claims. Comparing the average house price of the Greater Tokyo Metropolitan Area (5200 mi^2) to NYC (472.43 mi^2) is really a biased comparison. I suspect the houses built metric is similarly taken out of context possibly due to houses being torn down (more common in Japan than the US) meaning there's isn't as much of a net new home build up.

anovikov 4y ago
Maybe this is the whole point. Tokyo has public transport system that makes commute across such a vast area possible, and this is what explains property prices.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  There is a whole NYC Metropolitan Area which spans 4669 mi^2.
  - hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
    What is the average home price in the "whole NYC Metropolitan Area"?
    - marcinzm 4y ago
      You're free to do that research, I posted not to make any specific argument but simply to point out that making out of context claims isn't cool.
      - hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
        I did do my research. "The median home sale price in New York City as of Quarter 2 was $767K, a 0% change year-over-year. A total of 11489 homes traded, a mere -1% difference compared to the same month last year. In Quarter 2, the median price per square foot was $979, a 6% YoY change. The median home sale price in Manhattan was $1.2M." https://www.propertyshark.com/mason/market-trends/residential/nyc-all https://www.propertyshark.com/mason/market-trends/residentia... "A survey conducted by Recruit of people who bought newly constructed detached houses in the Tokyo metropolitan area in 2021 found that the average purchase price was ¥43.3 million, the highest level since the survey began in 2014." https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01311/#:~:text=A%20survey%20conducted%20by%20Recruit,the%20survey%20began%20in%202014 https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01311/#:~:text=A%20sur.... "In September 2020, the average listing price for a newly constructed detached wooden house in Tokyo of between 100-sqm and 300-sqm (1,076 sqft and 3,229 sqft) was: Greater Tokyo Area: ¥36,850,000 ($354,000) Tokyo (23 Wards + Western Suburbs): ¥42,880,000 ($412,000) Tokyo 23 Wards: ¥59,410,000 ($570,000) Tokyo western suburbs: ¥40,110,000 ($385,000)" https://resources.realestate.co.jp/news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-buy-a-house-in-tokyo-october-2020-update/ https://resources.realestate.co.jp/news/how-much-does-it-cos...
- cinntaile 4y ago
  It's a good point you bring up, if you have a bigger area but you can get to everywhere within the same time it doesn't really matter what the area is. They should provide isochrone maps of both cities to give that argument any substance though!

donw 4y ago

I call bullshit. First off, I’m willing to bet that the size of the Tokyo home is half or less compared to the New York option. There are “cheap homes” in Tokyo. They are effectively unlivable by modern standards, and when a Japanese person buys one, they do so to tear it down and build something new. If you do this, all of that is money wasted. The full value of your home will depreciate after 22 years. It only makes sense to buy if you never plan on selling. Or leaving.

hgfdhgdfhgf 4y ago
The figures cited for Tokyo are for "newly constructed homes" "The average price of a newly constructed house in the Tokyo area was ¥43.3 million. In central Tokyo, it was ¥60.6 million."
- donw 4y ago
  This is a JPY ~80M home in Nerima, one of the cheapest, and remotest, districts in Tokyo: https://www.athome.co.jp/kodate/1013825667/?DOWN=1&BKLISTID=001LIP&SEARCHDIV=1&sref=list_simple https://www.athome.co.jp/kodate/1013825667/?DOWN=1&BKLISTID=... The lot is 100 sqm (1000 sqft) the home is about the same, over two stories. Each bedroom is roughly half of what you would expect in an American home. The kitchen has effectively zero counter space. This is quite common in Japanese construction. For 60M, you’re going to end up at something like 3/4 of that. Without checking, I’m willing to bet that standalone houses in the New York area are larger for the money. Do keep in mind that Japanese homes are designed to last precisely 22 years. So, after 22 years, each of these homes will be worth nothing more than the land they sit on.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    > last precisely 22 years This is myth believed for unknown reason. Let's see many people sign up 35yr house loan.
mellavora 4y ago
tokyo home is 1/2 the size of US. Perhaps. How does that equate to "unlivable"? Perhaps it is the US homes which are too large? Compare 1980 and after McMansions with a standard US home from the 1950-70s urban build-out. Why should a house be an appreciating asset? With reference to current US building standards which are NOT based on long-term structural integrity. A car depreciates much faster than 22 years, yet that doesn't seem a waste. What is the depreciation rate on your laptop? Your claim of "bullshit" only holds if you assume current US cultural norms are the one true way.