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This is your uncle giving you some advice… Community college is the answer regardless of what your degree aspirations are. You will end up saving half of not

This is your uncle giving you some advice… Community college is the answer regardless of what your degree aspirations are. You will end up saving half of not more of the tuition and boarding expenses compared to spending all four years at a major university, and you get excellent instructors at the most critical time of higher education. Instructors at major universities for 100-200 classes are usually assistants, not professionals. And you STILL end up with a diploma from a Major university. You like football games? Put on team colors and pay for a ticket. Most big schools make you pay now, anyway. You want to go to parties? Then take a year off and have a blast. Get it out of your system. Then go to school. Here is a link to the list of community colleges in the US: http://www.applyingtoschool.com/forms/ComCol-State.aspx http://www.applyingtoschool.com/forms/ComCol-State.aspx

the_jeremy 4y ago
It is significantly easier to make friends being an incoming freshmen in the dorms, as everyone else in your cohort also has no friends and is always around. If you're outgoing, this isn't much of a problem, but as a sophomore transfer student who never lived on campus, I struggled with this pretty heavily. It's probably not worth >$10k between tuition / room and board to be able to make friends easily, but there is a downside. (I transferred from another university, not from community college, so I do have a point of comparison.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hcks 4y ago
I would qualify this type of online comment as infohazard. If you have ambition and have the potential to get into a nice school, then going to community college is ackin to shooting yourself in the foot. Sure, you can still have a nice career afterwards, but you're cutting yourself from many more opportunities you would have had otherwise. "excellent instructors" depends purely on luck wherever you end up to, and pretending they are automatically better in CC is deception. Most importantly, how bright are your classmates is the #1 thing that drives higher achievement in my experience, as the learning material is all over the internet anyway. I would like to add that in the sort of signalling game that higher education is, making "rational" bets such as "taking a year to get partying out of your system" is very much inferior to just doing what is deemed socially acceptable (which is partying while in college).
- Ancalagon 4y ago
  How would anyone know you took a year to party?
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  What if you rephrase it to "I took a gap year to find myself" or something more woo? idk, I don't believe it's an employer's business what I do or have done with myself.
- thedufer 4y ago
  I think you've misunderstood the suggestion. "excellent instructors at the most critical time of higher education" is a reference to the two years you would spend at a full university after knocking out a bunch of credits at a community college. This would allow you to save around half the cost, while still having a name-brand degree and top professors for your higher-level classes.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    jschveibinz's post doesn't actually say you should transfer to a full university. Perhaps we can guess they meant to - but it ain't what they said.
    - metaphor 4y ago
      To the contrary, quoting the relevant remarks: > You will end up saving half of not more of the tuition and boarding expenses compared to spending all four years at a major university... > And you STILL end up with a diploma from a Major university.
    - thedufer 4y ago
      Not explicitly, but can you come up with any other plausible explanation for you could "STILL end up with a diploma from a Major university"? That seems quite clear.
  - phkahler 4y ago
    Some of my best instructors were at community college. Being a Ph.D. does not automatically make someone a good teacher, in some ways it's detrimental. Having good instruction in foundational classes (math and physics if your going engineering) is important. I would do it that way again and not just for the cost savings. OTOH it did delay my graduation by at least a year, but that's mostly because I took my time.
hattmall 4y ago
Taking a year off to party seems like bad advice. You need to be able to party and meet obligations too, because that's real life. College is supposed to introduce you to that. One year of partying is like dipping a pinky toe in. Most of the best partying seems to be from about 25-35. You have better money, good experience, and a huge friend group. It's trivial to get 40-50 people together for a party and walking into the bar and already knowing lots of people without scheduling ahead is reality. Then more and more people start filtering out as they have kids. So, about 20 years of solid partying seems pretty normal from my friend group and observations. Then once you have solid money and kids it turns to weekend warrior types. Only partying on the weekends and doing more costly things like boating or taking short trips with friends. The only big parties are on the coveted 3 day weekends and the food becomes as important as the drugs and alcohol. Then, not from experience yet but observations seems like a little more partying once the kids are older late 50s early 60s but probably being in bed by midnight in most cases.
- Eric_WVGG 4y ago
  > Taking a year off to party seems like bad advice. A year off "to party" is iffy advice, but "a year off to get high school out of your system," i.e. a "gap year," is really good advice. I walked out of high school a depressed mess, and instead of slowing down and dealing with that, I let my parents pressure me into rolling that straight into college. Five years later, still pointlessly studying anything that sounded interesting, no degree in sight, sinking deeper into depression… it wasn't until I finally flamed out and put my life back together that I could even think about career. I wasn't even aware that the disciplines I would eventually find interesting even existed until after college. I still rank going straight into college as the biggest mistake of my life.
- ativzzz 4y ago
  Taking off a year to party may not be worthwhile but taking off a year to travel (if you have money) probably is. Also I disagree about partying better later on in life. Getting shitfaced with your friends at 20 any day of the week, hardly sleeping, and then not feeling a thing the next day and going to class is an experience you cannot replicate later in life. The last thing I want to do at 30 is have more than 2-3 drinks and get less than 8 hours of sleep when I have work the next day. The party atmosphere changes - the experiences get nicer and the food is better, but that raw youthful naivety and energy cannot be replicated, when you don't really care about anything but just having a good time and the environment/peripherals don't matter at all
lettergram 4y ago
The way I look at it, is if you can’t get through community college, you can’t make it through university. Community college requires more discipline. There’s isn’t as much fun extra cuticular activities, you’re often paying out of pocket and you’re home so there’s lots of distractions. If you can make it through that, you’ll do well at a university.
subpixel 4y ago
Actual uncle here with an addendum: Don't go to college before you have a sense of what you are interested in learning. This may not apply to many HN readers, but a lot of young people show up at college quite aimless, and this is not a great way to spend valuable tuition. You don't need to have your life course charted out, but you will likely be at a disadvantage if you aren't intensely curious about some things and eager to learn more about them when you start buying credits. I agree that community college is worth considering, but it's unlikely that community college will give you much direction you aren't developing yourself. The advice I give is a modification of the 'luck surface area' analogy: the more exposure you get to people who are engaged in professional disciplines, the greater the chance you will encounter traits and circumstances that interest and/or inspire you and open figurative and literal doors to your future.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > Don't go to college before you have a sense of what you are interested in learning. I live in a country where college is paid by the taxpers, and college students get a bunch of advantages (student work, food coupons, cheap stuff, access to student resources, gyms etc.). We have a bunch of students who have to decide on what to study at age 18, and a bunch of them are just "i'm bad at math, what doesn't have a lot of math?" and totally disregard other factors (mostly, employment opportunities), so after ~5 years, they get their masters in ancient greek and philosphy and then complain that there are no jobs for "educated young people". On one hand, they knew that there were no jobs in that field when they filled out the application forms, on the other hand, the taxpayers paid for 5 years of a useless college, then they learned something that has zero added value in their eventual workplace, and then they still complain. TLDR: "interested in learning" sure, but with consideration of "are there jobs in that field?"
  - subpixel 4y ago
    agreed, that's why my practical advice is less about college prep and more about meeting a lot of people who do a lot of different things for a living and letting those observations inform your direction and plans. fwiw my nieces ignored my advice and are liberal arts majors at private colleges in the US but at least they have close to full-ride scholarships.
clcaev 4y ago
This may be adequate advice for ill-prepared students, but is it universally good advice? First, many students have a home life not conductive to study, or outright hostile. Traditional four year college provides a place where most things taken care of so you can focus on your studies. There are often enormous opportunities to find new friends that are much closer to your mental capabilities and career aspirations. Second, universities have a wealth of opportunities that a community college simply lacks. For those who are motivated, there is research in all fields, which a student can help with. There are all sorts of work study programs, etc. If you're after work experience relevant to one's career, or a way to explore various careers, a university is really hard to beat. However, just because there is opportunity, does not mean every student is prepared. Professors want prepared students. Third, most state universities have smaller class sizes for their honor students. If you are not honors student, it still is not hard to find out which paths are less full. For example, a 100 level socioscience survey that fulfills one's core requisite for computer science might also be filled with a 200 level class (having no prereq) in a more specialized class, such as pre-hispanic mesoamérica. You may have to work harder, but you'll also learn more. Finally, doors of most professors are open. You just have to step though it. This personalized attention and direction are crucial to education. Most students simply do not know to do this, and hence miss the most important aspect of the process. Professors love to help when they meet a student who is driven to learn. By the time you graduate, you should have a half dozen professors who know you well enough that they will write a letter of recommendation. Those personalizes letters are the ticket that open doors, to grants, further study, or to their professional colleagues in industry.
bergenty 4y ago
You can’t just take a year off and magically find huge social groups and parties. Being in a college facilitates that. You also don’t seem to mention anything about networking. The best friends I’ve had come from freshman year in college when everyone is in the same boat and more willing to make friends. 2 years in, it’s a lot harder to break into established groups. At the end of the day, if all you want is a degree and need to save money, the two years at community college followed by two years as a university is definitely the way to go but it’s not optimal imo.
cush 4y ago
This. Also bootcamps are good enough to get a job. 6 months is plenty of training. You don't need to be an academic in the history of Roman aqueducts to be a carpenter, and the vast majority of CS degrees cover useless topics in the field. Find a small, good enough, cheap program, and do an internship.
gnicholas 4y ago
Teaching aside, what about the social benefits of starting out with a freshman cohort? My wife transferred from an out-of-state school to a school close to home, following a death in the family. She never made many friends at the new school, on account of having been housed on a freshman floor as a junior. She probably has as many friends from her original college, which she attended for just one year — the crucial freshman year. I'm not saying it's worth tens of thousands of dollars to network with other students, but if this is where lifelong friendships then it's worth considering the specifics. Also, many students qualify for significant need/merit financial aid. For me, attending the #1 rated liberal arts college was only modestly more expensive than attending a UC, with in-state tuition. And need-based scholarships have only gotten more generous in the last couple decades, since I went to school. IIRC all the top schools cover your full costs if your family income is below $125k or so.

the_jeremy 4y ago

It is significantly easier to make friends being an incoming freshmen in the dorms, as everyone else in your cohort also has no friends and is always around. If you're outgoing, this isn't much of a problem, but as a sophomore transfer student who never lived on campus, I struggled with this pretty heavily. It's probably not worth >$10k between tuition / room and board to be able to make friends easily, but there is a downside. (I transferred from another university, not from community college, so I do have a point of comparison.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hcks 4y ago

I would qualify this type of online comment as infohazard. If you have ambition and have the potential to get into a nice school, then going to community college is ackin to shooting yourself in the foot. Sure, you can still have a nice career afterwards, but you're cutting yourself from many more opportunities you would have had otherwise. "excellent instructors" depends purely on luck wherever you end up to, and pretending they are automatically better in CC is deception. Most importantly, how bright are your classmates is the #1 thing that drives higher achievement in my experience, as the learning material is all over the internet anyway. I would like to add that in the sort of signalling game that higher education is, making "rational" bets such as "taking a year to get partying out of your system" is very much inferior to just doing what is deemed socially acceptable (which is partying while in college).

Ancalagon 4y ago
How would anyone know you took a year to party?
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
What if you rephrase it to "I took a gap year to find myself" or something more woo? idk, I don't believe it's an employer's business what I do or have done with myself.
thedufer 4y ago
I think you've misunderstood the suggestion. "excellent instructors at the most critical time of higher education" is a reference to the two years you would spend at a full university after knocking out a bunch of credits at a community college. This would allow you to save around half the cost, while still having a name-brand degree and top professors for your higher-level classes.
- michaelt 4y ago
  jschveibinz's post doesn't actually say you should transfer to a full university. Perhaps we can guess they meant to - but it ain't what they said.
  - metaphor 4y ago
    To the contrary, quoting the relevant remarks: > You will end up saving half of not more of the tuition and boarding expenses compared to spending all four years at a major university... > And you STILL end up with a diploma from a Major university.
  - thedufer 4y ago
    Not explicitly, but can you come up with any other plausible explanation for you could "STILL end up with a diploma from a Major university"? That seems quite clear.
- phkahler 4y ago
  Some of my best instructors were at community college. Being a Ph.D. does not automatically make someone a good teacher, in some ways it's detrimental. Having good instruction in foundational classes (math and physics if your going engineering) is important. I would do it that way again and not just for the cost savings. OTOH it did delay my graduation by at least a year, but that's mostly because I took my time.

hattmall 4y ago

Taking a year off to party seems like bad advice. You need to be able to party and meet obligations too, because that's real life. College is supposed to introduce you to that. One year of partying is like dipping a pinky toe in. Most of the best partying seems to be from about 25-35. You have better money, good experience, and a huge friend group. It's trivial to get 40-50 people together for a party and walking into the bar and already knowing lots of people without scheduling ahead is reality. Then more and more people start filtering out as they have kids. So, about 20 years of solid partying seems pretty normal from my friend group and observations. Then once you have solid money and kids it turns to weekend warrior types. Only partying on the weekends and doing more costly things like boating or taking short trips with friends. The only big parties are on the coveted 3 day weekends and the food becomes as important as the drugs and alcohol. Then, not from experience yet but observations seems like a little more partying once the kids are older late 50s early 60s but probably being in bed by midnight in most cases.

Eric_WVGG 4y ago
> Taking a year off to party seems like bad advice. A year off "to party" is iffy advice, but "a year off to get high school out of your system," i.e. a "gap year," is really good advice. I walked out of high school a depressed mess, and instead of slowing down and dealing with that, I let my parents pressure me into rolling that straight into college. Five years later, still pointlessly studying anything that sounded interesting, no degree in sight, sinking deeper into depression… it wasn't until I finally flamed out and put my life back together that I could even think about career. I wasn't even aware that the disciplines I would eventually find interesting even existed until after college. I still rank going straight into college as the biggest mistake of my life.
ativzzz 4y ago
Taking off a year to party may not be worthwhile but taking off a year to travel (if you have money) probably is. Also I disagree about partying better later on in life. Getting shitfaced with your friends at 20 any day of the week, hardly sleeping, and then not feeling a thing the next day and going to class is an experience you cannot replicate later in life. The last thing I want to do at 30 is have more than 2-3 drinks and get less than 8 hours of sleep when I have work the next day. The party atmosphere changes - the experiences get nicer and the food is better, but that raw youthful naivety and energy cannot be replicated, when you don't really care about anything but just having a good time and the environment/peripherals don't matter at all

lettergram 4y ago

The way I look at it, is if you can’t get through community college, you can’t make it through university. Community college requires more discipline. There’s isn’t as much fun extra cuticular activities, you’re often paying out of pocket and you’re home so there’s lots of distractions. If you can make it through that, you’ll do well at a university.

subpixel 4y ago

Actual uncle here with an addendum: Don't go to college before you have a sense of what you are interested in learning. This may not apply to many HN readers, but a lot of young people show up at college quite aimless, and this is not a great way to spend valuable tuition. You don't need to have your life course charted out, but you will likely be at a disadvantage if you aren't intensely curious about some things and eager to learn more about them when you start buying credits. I agree that community college is worth considering, but it's unlikely that community college will give you much direction you aren't developing yourself. The advice I give is a modification of the 'luck surface area' analogy: the more exposure you get to people who are engaged in professional disciplines, the greater the chance you will encounter traits and circumstances that interest and/or inspire you and open figurative and literal doors to your future.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> Don't go to college before you have a sense of what you are interested in learning. I live in a country where college is paid by the taxpers, and college students get a bunch of advantages (student work, food coupons, cheap stuff, access to student resources, gyms etc.). We have a bunch of students who have to decide on what to study at age 18, and a bunch of them are just "i'm bad at math, what doesn't have a lot of math?" and totally disregard other factors (mostly, employment opportunities), so after ~5 years, they get their masters in ancient greek and philosphy and then complain that there are no jobs for "educated young people". On one hand, they knew that there were no jobs in that field when they filled out the application forms, on the other hand, the taxpayers paid for 5 years of a useless college, then they learned something that has zero added value in their eventual workplace, and then they still complain. TLDR: "interested in learning" sure, but with consideration of "are there jobs in that field?"
- subpixel 4y ago
  agreed, that's why my practical advice is less about college prep and more about meeting a lot of people who do a lot of different things for a living and letting those observations inform your direction and plans. fwiw my nieces ignored my advice and are liberal arts majors at private colleges in the US but at least they have close to full-ride scholarships.

clcaev 4y ago

This may be adequate advice for ill-prepared students, but is it universally good advice? First, many students have a home life not conductive to study, or outright hostile. Traditional four year college provides a place where most things taken care of so you can focus on your studies. There are often enormous opportunities to find new friends that are much closer to your mental capabilities and career aspirations. Second, universities have a wealth of opportunities that a community college simply lacks. For those who are motivated, there is research in all fields, which a student can help with. There are all sorts of work study programs, etc. If you're after work experience relevant to one's career, or a way to explore various careers, a university is really hard to beat. However, just because there is opportunity, does not mean every student is prepared. Professors want prepared students. Third, most state universities have smaller class sizes for their honor students. If you are not honors student, it still is not hard to find out which paths are less full. For example, a 100 level socioscience survey that fulfills one's core requisite for computer science might also be filled with a 200 level class (having no prereq) in a more specialized class, such as pre-hispanic mesoamérica. You may have to work harder, but you'll also learn more. Finally, doors of most professors are open. You just have to step though it. This personalized attention and direction are crucial to education. Most students simply do not know to do this, and hence miss the most important aspect of the process. Professors love to help when they meet a student who is driven to learn. By the time you graduate, you should have a half dozen professors who know you well enough that they will write a letter of recommendation. Those personalizes letters are the ticket that open doors, to grants, further study, or to their professional colleagues in industry.

bergenty 4y ago

You can’t just take a year off and magically find huge social groups and parties. Being in a college facilitates that. You also don’t seem to mention anything about networking. The best friends I’ve had come from freshman year in college when everyone is in the same boat and more willing to make friends. 2 years in, it’s a lot harder to break into established groups. At the end of the day, if all you want is a degree and need to save money, the two years at community college followed by two years as a university is definitely the way to go but it’s not optimal imo.

cush 4y ago

This. Also bootcamps are good enough to get a job. 6 months is plenty of training. You don't need to be an academic in the history of Roman aqueducts to be a carpenter, and the vast majority of CS degrees cover useless topics in the field. Find a small, good enough, cheap program, and do an internship.

gnicholas 4y ago

Teaching aside, what about the social benefits of starting out with a freshman cohort? My wife transferred from an out-of-state school to a school close to home, following a death in the family. She never made many friends at the new school, on account of having been housed on a freshman floor as a junior. She probably has as many friends from her original college, which she attended for just one year — the crucial freshman year. I'm not saying it's worth tens of thousands of dollars to network with other students, but if this is where lifelong friendships then it's worth considering the specifics. Also, many students qualify for significant need/merit financial aid. For me, attending the #1 rated liberal arts college was only modestly more expensive than attending a UC, with in-state tuition. And need-based scholarships have only gotten more generous in the last couple decades, since I went to school. IIRC all the top schools cover your full costs if your family income is below $125k or so.