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Why does a librarian own MetaFilter?
- karaterobot 4y agoJessamyn is great. She doesn't know it, but she was one of the inspirations for me going to library school, many years ago. Metafilter, too, was my high water mark for discussions on the open internet — nothing has really come close to it since. This interview transcript is unfortunately hard to read, and I think a little editing and cleanup would do it justice.
- mtVessel 4y agoI wonder if it was auto-transcripted. It reads like it was done by someone unfamiliar with the rhythms and idioms of "English as she is spoke".
- barrysteve 4y agoWow Jessamyn's back and now owns it? Never thought I'd see the day. She was always fair and understandable. I got an account on Metafilter back in '08 and closed it in '15 because it became devastatingly political. It was like a cliff face, it went from a generous and unrestrained community to total one-sided 'my way or no way' politics. I asked the mods to close my account in 2015 because of it and they did.. without the awkward twang of displeasure or faint remorse I was expecting. To this day, if I see that black and white attitude to politics, I ditch the site. It's not worth it. HN's tech focus really is a saving grace. When she says "A lot of people left because the site changed and they didn’t", it was definitely my outcome. BTW this was the best non-professional song I found on Mefi back in '08 (a million years ago?) https://music.metafilter.com/902/Miss-Me-in-the-Morning https://music.metafilter.com/902/Miss-Me-in-the-Morning
- dnissley 4y agoMetafilter was the place I learned to be civil online, and that just makes the current state of things all the more devastating.
- nth_degree 4y agoI only left (err, closed my always-open browser tab) a few months ago, after reading through the discussion about the user survey. The number of comments saying, basically, “anyone who thinks the site changed for the worse is just a [insert right wing caricature here]” horrified me yet, by that point, was completely unsurprising. But after reading a few comments from people who had left the site, I finally realized that I could do the same, and I’d probably be happier for it.
- jefurii 4y agoI know what you mean - for awhile after 2016 you couldn't say anything remotely progressive without having your comments flagged by overzealous Clinton-or-nobody Dems. I almost left but I stuck around and it's gotten better. The no-U.S.-politics option made things easier.
- TMWNN 4y ago>I got an account on Metafilter back in '08 and closed it in '15 because it became devastatingly political. It was like a cliff face, it went from a generous and unrestrained community to total one-sided 'my way or no way' politics. Yes. People who haven't heard of Metafilter don't get how, at one time, it was the best of Reddit and Hacker News in one place. It really destroyed itself because users (and, more importantly, the mods behind the scenes) developed a hivemind that exceeds anything out there other than the likes of /r/politics (no, kids, HN's "hivemind" is nothing of the sort in comparison) in its intensity to erase anyone who commits wrongthink. I hope Ms. West understands how catastrophic the consequences were.
- barrysteve 4y agoYeah for sure. Reddit's hivemind is mostly based on automod bots and two or three mods manually scanning & banning everything. MeFi was open and a pleasing place to hang out and tease out new ideas. Then the politics hit and the open-and-friendly feedback loop turned into a recursive folding inwards into one political view, for owner, mods (except jessamyn who didn't get into it) and commenters. It wasn't just an automod bot banning keywords or your comments getting shadowbanned. You could say what you wanted and the people (entire user base and owners) would figure out the best way to reinforce their recursive implosion and completely destroy you and whatever point you were trying to say. Kind of impressive in a mechanical sense, and you know, horrible to participate in. Looks way better than that now.
- TMWNN 4y ago> Then the politics hit and the open-and-friendly feedback loop turned into a recursive folding inwards into one political view, for owner, mods (except jessamyn who didn't get into it) and commenters. The funny thing is that I vaguely thought Ms. West was the owner, or at least ran things, so to hear that she's only now taken over is surprising. Certainly she was for years the closest thing Metafilter had to a public face. >It wasn't just an automod bot banning keywords or your comments getting shadowbanned. You could say what you wanted and the people (entire user base and owners) would figure out the best way to reinforce their recursive implosion and completely destroy you and whatever point you were trying to say. Kind of impressive in a mechanical sense, and you know, horrible to participate in. Yes; the shunning was entirely people-driven. At least with Reddit, it's possible to find another subreddit if you don't like /r/politics. With MeFi, the only alternatives are off the site entirely. I never used my MeFi account much despite its age because I could see early on the trends that only accelerated as the years passed, so it's no surprise (but still sad, given the site's venerable history) to see that many, many others with much more participation decided to go off the site.
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y agoYeah my interest in MeFi withered at that time as well. But not because I disagreed with those particular politics (because I don't) but because it suddenly started feeling like an annoyingly US-first type of community. As Americans argue between each other, they also have a way of making it all sound like it is all about themselves and their world.
- joezydeco 4y agoI'm a longtime MeFi participant and I'm thrilled Jessamyn is involved again. Another bit of trivia: her father was Tom West, one of the engineers chronicled in Tracy Kidder's The Soul of a New Machine. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/business/28west.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/business/28west.html
- johnthescott 4y ago> her father was Tom West cool.
- arkitaip 4y agoJessamyn is amazing and I'm thrilled she's back running things at Mefi.
- justinator 4y agoI love me Metafilter, but I'm worried that the site itself isn't going to make it, being built on Cold Fusion and the people who want to work on that is approaching 0.
- Tehhund 4y agoPaying someone to migrate the site to something modern might be cost prohibitive. But there are plenty of MetaFilter users who have the expertise and would happily pitch in to move the site to a modern open source stack. But for years the MetaFilter policy was "we can't accept volunteer labor because (mumble mumble legal something)." So hopefully they'll eventually decide "the fact that programmatic changes take forever is killing us" and do whatever is necessary to make volunteer labor possible. I guess they could also let volunteers work on ColdFusion, but they might not get many takers.
- NelsonMinar 4y agoI love Metafilter. ColdFusion ain't great but the bigger problem facing it is the slow decline in readers, posts, and ad revenue. It's an old fashioned site that I find very valuable but is facing attrition. Some stats from 2020 (the trend hasn't changed) https://metatalk.metafilter.com/25642/Talk-less#1375722 https://metatalk.metafilter.com/25642/Talk-less#1375722
- Tehhund 4y agoIt's true that the issue is the number of users and interactions, but the difficulty of making any technical improvements is a part of that. Maybe not a huge one but if they never add features that people want that's going to hurt engagement somewhat.
- tablespoon 4y ago> It's true that the issue is the number of users and interactions, but the difficulty of making any technical improvements is a part of that. Maybe not a huge one but if they never add features that people want that's going to hurt engagement somewhat. It's been awhile since I've visited, but people aren't leaving due to lack of features. It was mainly social issues (IIRC, it's a bit of a minefield, and the moderation style has a few notable negative side effects).
- jessamyn 4y agoHi! Yes I'm the owner which is mostly paperwork and legal and sort of "the vision thing." Loup is running day-to-day stuff and we have a 12-member Steering Committee who will hopefully be setting the priorities and keeping everyone on target. I can not stress enough that I am not making the daily decisions but I do know that yes being able to accept help (and money, but help especially) is really going to be a priority as we try to make the site more community run and much less of a "single point of failure" situation. The last few years have been hard for the world which also means hard for MeFi; MeFi had some MeFi-specific issues and problems which needed addressing and are getting looked at. For anyone who hangs out there, or who just has fond memories of the place but it's not your spot anymore, consider stopping by to say hi again, giving feedback (or money, but feedback especially) and helping MeFi stay MeFi. <3
- dsr_ 4y agoFor those who aren't sure what MeFi is: it's basically this site, but with a broader range of topics and a deeper sense of community, like certain newsgroups or mailing lists.
- worldmerge 4y agoThank you! This is the first time I've heard of Meta Filter.
- psygn89 4y agoIt's a shame - MetaFilter and sites like SlashDot used to be more prominent. I think that has changed with the way Google likes to lead to paywall and ad sites now over quality content and discussions. Just to make a point, if I search "how to screw in a lightbulb" I wouldn't be surprised if the top result takes me to a blog post that explains the history of the bulb, the average life of each type of lightbulb, some Amazon affiliated links, before it gets to what I need. I often have to tag on "reddit" just to cut down on the noise and get to the answer.
- 4y ago
- genericacct 4y agoIf I recall correctly it was a google algo change that punished the site a few years ago
- lph 4y agoYes. The Ask MetaFilter section of the site has a deep bank of questions with high-quality answers. Google used to weight these heavily in its search results, so Google directed a lot of potential new users to the site and accounted for a lot of ad revenue. At some point in the mid-teens, a Google algorithm change de-prioritized MetaFilter, with catastrophic effect on the site's income.
- walrus01 4y agoAs I recall, when I made a metafilter account many years ago (2007!?!?) it costs 5 dollars to join. Which is a low enough amount that people can do it casually, but it's enough to deter people making random sockpuppets for the purposes of baiting and trolling and spamming. Introducing a barrier like that is an interesting and I think very valid method to maintaining the quality of an online discussion forum.
- bpeebles 4y agoIt's still $5 but they say on the signup page they'll waive it if you ask because you can't afford it/can't send the money somehow. So it's still very accessible but very, very few spammers bother to do either (a few have in the past decade and a half, of course).
- legerdemain 4y agoI was a very active user of MetaFilter for a couple of years in the early 2010s. I still have a lot of bookmarked links to shopping and music recs from Ask MeFi, although link rot has by now rendered many of them less useful. I was putting together a lot of detailed posts on topics that interested me, mostly for my own record-keeping, but also hoping to build connections with similarly minded people. Despite making a lot of effort, including setting up a few MeFi meetups IRL, I never really clicked with anyone else on the site (except for one Brooklyn hipster who was really into the Achewood web comic, but that wasn't really enough for a long-term friendship). Since I wasn't getting anything out of the site socially, the heavy moderation, the occasional private nastygram, and a handful of particularly strident users eventually got to me and I closed my account.
- barrysteve 4y agoAny of those links still kicking? It's cool to see what other people like about MeFi and it's the only place where some of that content lives.
- legerdemain 4y agoYes, they're all in my deactivated MeFi profile, which I will sadly not share with you.
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- jonjacky 4y agoHere are some miscellaneious links to Ask Metafilter that I saved. (Sorry about the poor formatting, but the links appear to work.) <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/home/popularfavoriteall http://ask.metafilter.com/home/popularfavoriteall"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/71101/What-single-book-is-the-best-introduction-to-your-field-or-specialization-within-your-field-for-laypeople http://ask.metafilter.com/71101/What-single-book-is-the-best..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/136110/What-are-the-most-wellwritten-textbooks http://ask.metafilter.com/136110/What-are-the-most-wellwritt..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/94259/Classical-classics http://ask.metafilter.com/94259/Classical-classics"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/126006/Contemporary-Art-History-and-Theory http://ask.metafilter.com/126006/Contemporary-Art-History-an..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/128286/WWI-what-happened http://ask.metafilter.com/128286/WWI-what-happened"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/143473/You-are-Socrates-I-am-Menos-slave http://ask.metafilter.com/143473/You-are-Socrates-I-am-Menos..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/85468/Past-performance-future-results-ampc http://ask.metafilter.com/85468/Past-performance-future-resu..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/82725/Recommendations-for-PC-drawing-tablet http://ask.metafilter.com/82725/Recommendations-for-PC-drawi..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/85291/How-can-I-break-into-an-empty-filing-cabinet http://ask.metafilter.com/85291/How-can-I-break-into-an-empt..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/89980/Oh-so-youre-a-insert-profession-here-How-insert-whacky-generalization-and-misguided-curiosity-here http://ask.metafilter.com/89980/Oh-so-youre-a-insert-profess..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/113503/What-are-some-good-songs-to-bring-to-my-human-dissection-class http://ask.metafilter.com/113503/What-are-some-good-songs-to..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/123361/Help-me-unlock-the-power-of-the-four-chords http://ask.metafilter.com/123361/Help-me-unlock-the-power-of..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/164388/The-Old-Man-and-the-C-Drive http://ask.metafilter.com/164388/The-Old-Man-and-the-C-Drive"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/222791/How-is-webbe-formd http://ask.metafilter.com/222791/How-is-webbe-formd"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/234622/Whats-the-bless-your-heart-of-your-field http://ask.metafilter.com/234622/Whats-the-bless-your-heart-..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/129661/Help-Really-Cool-Nonprofit-Reptile-Park-Not-Have-Unusably-Sucky-Web-Site http://ask.metafilter.com/129661/Help-Really-Cool-Nonprofit-..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/122353/Whats-the-Best-Thing-Youve-Ever-Seen-Here http://ask.metafilter.com/122353/Whats-the-Best-Thing-Youve-..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/260505/What-are-the-most-interesting-obituaries-from-the-NYTIMES-or-ECONOMIST http://ask.metafilter.com/260505/What-are-the-most-interesti..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/266452/Smells-that-dont-exist-anymore-or-are-harder-to-find-in-real-life http://ask.metafilter.com/266452/Smells-that-dont-exist-anym..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/273095/Nasty-harsh-scathing-literary-criticism http://ask.metafilter.com/273095/Nasty-harsh-scathing-litera..."> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/293366/Many-many-manifestos http://ask.metafilter.com/293366/Many-many-manifestos"> <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/307896/Opinions-are-like-pizzas-everybody-has-one-and-theyre-all-great http://ask.metafilter.com/307896/Opinions-are-like-pizzas-ev...">