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from the article, >>As much as we love exciting new features, we also want to see people create games on the full spectrum of devices for everyone to enjoy. T

from the article, >>As much as we love exciting new features, we also want to see people create games on the full spectrum of devices for everyone to enjoy. This is one of the main attitudes of the Godot team I really appreciate a lot. It might be easy for people in more developed nations to upgrade their hardware every few years, but there's people still playing games running on computers from 2002 and before. I used to know of a player who used to play (an old MMORPG) games on a computer he aimed a table fan at to keep it cool. The whole casing was open, it was kinna funny to look at it and it had hardware he got as a birthday gift more than 10 years ago. He played that old MMORPG because newer games wouldn't even start on that old thing. But most people who played that MMO were in the same boat, it was one of the very few ones they could run. The requirements for some of the games coming out these days is sometimes so insane a lot of people from around the world are unable to play them. I always found it funny how we had so much developer time wasted on supporting ie6 because a small percentage of people were unable to upgrade their browsers, but when it comes to gaming, all bets were off and you are now expected to spend a few grand a year on upgrading your computer to play newer games. And don't get me started on the bandwidth costs to play some of the new games.

tmpz22 4y ago
Even seemingly simple games are clocking in at 100GB+ in disk space. I think in terms of performance many games are setting the floor at the Nintendo Switch or the Steam Deck, often ripping out features to get it to run on those platforms (CIV6, 2k etc). This is one reason I really admired Valheim (~1GB). Though even that game had CPU issues (also its an indie title so...).
- hmcamp 4y ago
  Isn’t this a symptom rather than a cause. Because game manufacturers can create larger games with scant regards for people’s resources… they do.
- taejavu 4y ago
  I'm aware of large AAA games taking up that much space (Doom Eternal, Red Dead Redemption 2) but they could hardly be considered "simple". Do you have examples of what you're talking about?
  - anthk 4y ago
    Check Compact GUI if you are Windows users.
  - tmpz22 4y ago
    NBA2k is over 100GB. Sports games seem to do this a lot. It’s obviously due to the art assets that AAA roll out but there’s gotta be some way to trim the fat or at least do it incrementally. “Simple” was probably a bad choice of words.
  - svarovski 4y ago
    [dead]
throw10920 4y ago
Optimization levels of many newer games are terrible. Low-poly, visually simplistic games like Fortnite, Risk of Rain 2, Valheim, and Deep Rock Galactic barely run on a friend's computer (that was made only 5 years ago). Visually more complex games like League of Legends run buttery smooth on the exact same hardware. (ironically, he says that Valorant, made by a non-Epic company, apparently runs significantly better than Fortnite, made by Epic - even though both are using the Epic-made Unreal Engine)
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
  I think Fortnite is UE5 while Valo is UE4.
- sph 4y ago
  > Fortnite, Risk of Rain 2, Valheim, and Deep Rock Galactic Those games are low poly but NOT visually simplistic. Memory tends to play tricks and we remember older games looking better than they actually did, so we imagine lower polygons = 2005 tech game. Those games you've mention run on advanced and heavyweight fragment and vertex shaders to create a specific look (cartoony graphics in Fortnite, there's a million effects on screen a dozen levels in a Risk of Rain game, etc.) They might have the same poly count of Old School Runescape (but not really, as the models are actually quite complex) yet everything else is 20 years ahead of that game tech and complexity wise. Also not sure what your friend's PC is like, because a 5 year old PC can play all of those games with ease, though perhaps not at max settings. A 1080 ti from 2017 can run RoR2 at ~190 fps at 1440p. https://youtu.be/TdfE3n8YLYo https://youtu.be/TdfE3n8YLYo
  - throw10920 4y ago
    This logic doesn't hold up. > Memory tends to play tricks and we remember older games looking better than they actually did We compared what League of Legends, Valorant, and Inscryption look like now with what those other games look like now. There's no rose-tinted glasses involved - this is an apples-to-apples comparison. > Those games you've mention run on advanced and heavyweight fragment and vertex shaders to create a specific look If that same look is being created in a far more performant manner by other games, then that means that the game is poorly optimized. > cartoony graphics in Fortnite Same effect class as Valorant and League, with lower visual fidelity, and worse performance. > there's a million effects on screen a dozen levels in a Risk of Rain game Risk of Rain is incredibly laggy in the menu, with zero mobs on screen and a single small scene as the background. > yet everything else is 20 years ahead of that game tech and complexity wise Again, see Valorant, LoL, and Inscryption. > Also not sure what your friend's PC is like, because a 5 year old PC can play all of those games with ease, though perhaps not at max settings. Core i3-5015U with Intel integrated 5500[1] - so, 7 years old. Yet, it can still run League and Valorant at >60 fps with default settings, and 20-30fps Inscryption and Dota 2 with reduced settings - meanwhile, Fortnite, DRG, RoR2, and Valheim are all slideshows with all settings turned all the way down. The claim that "these new games are just so much more involved than older games" simply doesn't hold up against the reality that there are recently-released games that look better and perform better simultaneously than these examples. My lived experience, my understanding of computer graphics, and knowledge of things like the GTA Online incident[2] strongly indicates that this line of reasoning is incorrect. [1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84698/intel-core-i35015u-processor-3m-cache-2-10-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84698/i... [2] https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...
hnick 4y ago
> a computer he aimed a table fan at to keep it cool. The whole casing was open That brings me back, I had to do the same to play Starcraft in the early 00s in summer since our house had no air conditioning and CPUs were passively cooled. I was drenched in sweat but I wasn't going to give up my games, dammit! The interesting thing is the symptom was just a crash to desktop, not a full system shutdown like now (for safety reasons I assume).
syeare 4y ago
What was the MMO? Was it Tibia or OSRS or something? Was your friend Latin American by any chance?

tmpz22 4y ago

Even seemingly simple games are clocking in at 100GB+ in disk space. I think in terms of performance many games are setting the floor at the Nintendo Switch or the Steam Deck, often ripping out features to get it to run on those platforms (CIV6, 2k etc). This is one reason I really admired Valheim (~1GB). Though even that game had CPU issues (also its an indie title so...).

hmcamp 4y ago
Isn’t this a symptom rather than a cause. Because game manufacturers can create larger games with scant regards for people’s resources… they do.
taejavu 4y ago
I'm aware of large AAA games taking up that much space (Doom Eternal, Red Dead Redemption 2) but they could hardly be considered "simple". Do you have examples of what you're talking about?
- anthk 4y ago
  Check Compact GUI if you are Windows users.
- tmpz22 4y ago
  NBA2k is over 100GB. Sports games seem to do this a lot. It’s obviously due to the art assets that AAA roll out but there’s gotta be some way to trim the fat or at least do it incrementally. “Simple” was probably a bad choice of words.
- svarovski 4y ago
  [dead]

throw10920 4y ago

Optimization levels of many newer games are terrible. Low-poly, visually simplistic games like Fortnite, Risk of Rain 2, Valheim, and Deep Rock Galactic barely run on a friend's computer (that was made only 5 years ago). Visually more complex games like League of Legends run buttery smooth on the exact same hardware. (ironically, he says that Valorant, made by a non-Epic company, apparently runs significantly better than Fortnite, made by Epic - even though both are using the Epic-made Unreal Engine)

KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
I think Fortnite is UE5 while Valo is UE4.
sph 4y ago
> Fortnite, Risk of Rain 2, Valheim, and Deep Rock Galactic Those games are low poly but NOT visually simplistic. Memory tends to play tricks and we remember older games looking better than they actually did, so we imagine lower polygons = 2005 tech game. Those games you've mention run on advanced and heavyweight fragment and vertex shaders to create a specific look (cartoony graphics in Fortnite, there's a million effects on screen a dozen levels in a Risk of Rain game, etc.) They might have the same poly count of Old School Runescape (but not really, as the models are actually quite complex) yet everything else is 20 years ahead of that game tech and complexity wise. Also not sure what your friend's PC is like, because a 5 year old PC can play all of those games with ease, though perhaps not at max settings. A 1080 ti from 2017 can run RoR2 at ~190 fps at 1440p. https://youtu.be/TdfE3n8YLYo https://youtu.be/TdfE3n8YLYo
- throw10920 4y ago
  This logic doesn't hold up. > Memory tends to play tricks and we remember older games looking better than they actually did We compared what League of Legends, Valorant, and Inscryption look like now with what those other games look like now. There's no rose-tinted glasses involved - this is an apples-to-apples comparison. > Those games you've mention run on advanced and heavyweight fragment and vertex shaders to create a specific look If that same look is being created in a far more performant manner by other games, then that means that the game is poorly optimized. > cartoony graphics in Fortnite Same effect class as Valorant and League, with lower visual fidelity, and worse performance. > there's a million effects on screen a dozen levels in a Risk of Rain game Risk of Rain is incredibly laggy in the menu, with zero mobs on screen and a single small scene as the background. > yet everything else is 20 years ahead of that game tech and complexity wise Again, see Valorant, LoL, and Inscryption. > Also not sure what your friend's PC is like, because a 5 year old PC can play all of those games with ease, though perhaps not at max settings. Core i3-5015U with Intel integrated 5500[1] - so, 7 years old. Yet, it can still run League and Valorant at >60 fps with default settings, and 20-30fps Inscryption and Dota 2 with reduced settings - meanwhile, Fortnite, DRG, RoR2, and Valheim are all slideshows with all settings turned all the way down. The claim that "these new games are just so much more involved than older games" simply doesn't hold up against the reality that there are recently-released games that look better and perform better simultaneously than these examples. My lived experience, my understanding of computer graphics, and knowledge of things like the GTA Online incident[2] strongly indicates that this line of reasoning is incorrect. [1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84698/intel-core-i35015u-processor-3m-cache-2-10-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84698/i... [2] https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...

hnick 4y ago

> a computer he aimed a table fan at to keep it cool. The whole casing was open That brings me back, I had to do the same to play Starcraft in the early 00s in summer since our house had no air conditioning and CPUs were passively cooled. I was drenched in sweat but I wasn't going to give up my games, dammit! The interesting thing is the symptom was just a crash to desktop, not a full system shutdown like now (for safety reasons I assume).

syeare 4y ago

What was the MMO? Was it Tibia or OSRS or something? Was your friend Latin American by any chance?