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This is how an auto insurance company I used to work for wrote policies. They didn’t underwrite them until there was a claim and then they would rescind the po

This is how an auto insurance company I used to work for wrote policies. They didn’t underwrite them until there was a claim and then they would rescind the policy and deny the claim when they found a “material misrepresentation”. They called it underwriting on the back end.

ddalex 4y ago
This seems like straight fraud.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jtbayly 4y ago
What company!!!??? Please don't just leave all of us hoping we aren't the unlucky guy that is using that company.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised to find it is most insurance companies. The insurance industry as a whole is seriously messed up and congress seems unwilling to do anything about it.
  - tharne 4y ago
    > I wouldn't be surprised to find it is most insurance companies. In the U.S. I guarantee you that most insurance companies are NOT doing this. What this company is doing is called "Bad Faith" in insurance jargon. And the penalties for this sort of behavior are enormous, and can even include the possibility of the company losing its license to sell insurance in a particular state. > The insurance industry as a whole is seriously messed up and congress seems unwilling to do anything about it. Congress doesn't do much with insurance because insurance in the U.S. is regulated at the state level, not the federal level.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      LOL, wait until you hear about ERISA and learn that everything you just said is wrong for most employee insurance plans and that you can't even get damages when they act in bad faith.
      - tharne 4y ago
        > LOL, wait until you hear about ERISA and learn that everything you just said is wrong for most employee insurance plans and that you can't even get damages when they act in bad faith. We may be talking past each other here. I was referring to property and casualty insurance in my comment, while it sounds like you're talking about health and disability insurance. Two completely different worlds and regulatory frameworks.
        encryptluks2 4y ago
        Fair, those are definitely much more fair but just a quick search will show there is no shortage of courts ruling in insurance companies favor even when acting in bad faith. Just looking at complaints on the insurance commissioners website for my state seems to indicates even when they do get fined the amounts are small.
  - treis 4y ago
    It's half true. There's not really underwriting for auto policies like there is with life or home insurance. You register your rating rules with the state and anyone who qualifies gets a policy. All the risk calculations and pricing are just look up tables and done automatically. Now if you are in line for a large payout the insurance company will definitely review your application to see if you lied. Significant lies will get your policy cancelled and no payout. So don't lie on any insurance applications.
    - jtbayly 4y ago
      Thanks! This makes sense of it.
- hnburnsy 4y ago
  Come on give us a hint or maybe just the company mascot?
jlokier 4y ago
Sounds like private health insurance. Initial form questions like "tell us if you have ever been to hospital for anything serious?", you're thinking "I'm not sure if that time I dropped in to the GP 5 years ago with a headache counts as serious [same for other things that seem trivial over the years, just being sensible]". You phone the insurer to check, they say "oh there's no need to put that down, it's not meant for trivial things, you'd have to write an essay in a small box if we meant literally anything conceivable; don't worry about it". You couldn't possibly hope to remember every tiny thing over the years anyway, unless you had access to your various written medical records held by various parties. 10 years of premium payments later you make a claim because you now have MS, you need support and treatment, a brain scan confirms physical issues, and..... "your policy is invalid because you didn't tell us about that time you went in about a headache 15 years ago". They still keep the 10 years of premiums though. You take them to court. Your lawyer mentions that this is extremely common practice by health insurance companies. They don't provide you with any way to confirm if your policy is valid until you make a claim, then it's too late. You did what you thought you were supposed to do. The lawyer says most people who then take the insurer to court are unable to prove they were misled, and the insurer keeps the premiums you paid despite not providing any actual insurance. Don't ask me how I know.
- eftychis 4y ago
  I am not surprised. I am disappointed the American people is simply putting up with this healthcare situation. I don't think it matters if your doctors welcome room is fancy. Or they have 10 administrators replying to you within minutes. In the end you want to be treated fast and efficiently, and it fails. But I digress. I can see why paypal does this and I am glad we are planning on avoiding them in our back end.
disgruntledphd2 4y ago
Huh? That sure seems like fraud, unless there are details I'm missing here.

ddalex 4y ago

This seems like straight fraud.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jtbayly 4y ago

What company!!!??? Please don't just leave all of us hoping we aren't the unlucky guy that is using that company.

encryptluks2 4y ago
I wouldn't be surprised to find it is most insurance companies. The insurance industry as a whole is seriously messed up and congress seems unwilling to do anything about it.
- tharne 4y ago
  > I wouldn't be surprised to find it is most insurance companies. In the U.S. I guarantee you that most insurance companies are NOT doing this. What this company is doing is called "Bad Faith" in insurance jargon. And the penalties for this sort of behavior are enormous, and can even include the possibility of the company losing its license to sell insurance in a particular state. > The insurance industry as a whole is seriously messed up and congress seems unwilling to do anything about it. Congress doesn't do much with insurance because insurance in the U.S. is regulated at the state level, not the federal level.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    LOL, wait until you hear about ERISA and learn that everything you just said is wrong for most employee insurance plans and that you can't even get damages when they act in bad faith.
    - tharne 4y ago
      > LOL, wait until you hear about ERISA and learn that everything you just said is wrong for most employee insurance plans and that you can't even get damages when they act in bad faith. We may be talking past each other here. I was referring to property and casualty insurance in my comment, while it sounds like you're talking about health and disability insurance. Two completely different worlds and regulatory frameworks.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        Fair, those are definitely much more fair but just a quick search will show there is no shortage of courts ruling in insurance companies favor even when acting in bad faith. Just looking at complaints on the insurance commissioners website for my state seems to indicates even when they do get fined the amounts are small.
- treis 4y ago
  It's half true. There's not really underwriting for auto policies like there is with life or home insurance. You register your rating rules with the state and anyone who qualifies gets a policy. All the risk calculations and pricing are just look up tables and done automatically. Now if you are in line for a large payout the insurance company will definitely review your application to see if you lied. Significant lies will get your policy cancelled and no payout. So don't lie on any insurance applications.
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    Thanks! This makes sense of it.
hnburnsy 4y ago
Come on give us a hint or maybe just the company mascot?

jlokier 4y ago

Sounds like private health insurance. Initial form questions like "tell us if you have ever been to hospital for anything serious?", you're thinking "I'm not sure if that time I dropped in to the GP 5 years ago with a headache counts as serious [same for other things that seem trivial over the years, just being sensible]". You phone the insurer to check, they say "oh there's no need to put that down, it's not meant for trivial things, you'd have to write an essay in a small box if we meant literally anything conceivable; don't worry about it". You couldn't possibly hope to remember every tiny thing over the years anyway, unless you had access to your various written medical records held by various parties. 10 years of premium payments later you make a claim because you now have MS, you need support and treatment, a brain scan confirms physical issues, and..... "your policy is invalid because you didn't tell us about that time you went in about a headache 15 years ago". They still keep the 10 years of premiums though. You take them to court. Your lawyer mentions that this is extremely common practice by health insurance companies. They don't provide you with any way to confirm if your policy is valid until you make a claim, then it's too late. You did what you thought you were supposed to do. The lawyer says most people who then take the insurer to court are unable to prove they were misled, and the insurer keeps the premiums you paid despite not providing any actual insurance. Don't ask me how I know.

eftychis 4y ago
I am not surprised. I am disappointed the American people is simply putting up with this healthcare situation. I don't think it matters if your doctors welcome room is fancy. Or they have 10 administrators replying to you within minutes. In the end you want to be treated fast and efficiently, and it fails. But I digress. I can see why paypal does this and I am glad we are planning on avoiding them in our back end.

disgruntledphd2 4y ago

Huh? That sure seems like fraud, unless there are details I'm missing here.