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Tesla is sued by drivers over alleged false Autopilot, Full Self-Driving claims
- jqpabc123 4y agoWow, I didn't see that one coming! They're real close to having full self driving AI --- the only thing missing is "intelligence". /sarcasm
- ChoGGi 4y agohttps://archive.ph/3R0bW https://archive.ph/3R0bW
- scohesc 4y agoUnless road conditions are completely 100% ideal (no snow, no rain, road markers are clearly visible and not covered up by dirt/dust/rubbermarks), you're never, _ever_ going to have fully autonomous self-driving. Too many variables and factors to account for. Elon Musk has been gloating about fully self driving vehicles for years, but has never really delivered, despite people paying tens of thousands for access to the BETA feature. It's probably much better off to have RFID beacons planted in roadways (either along lane markers, or in the center of lanes) which can be easily read by vehicles with the appropriate antenna. Sort of like a virtual railroad track. (Then again, what's stopping someone from hijacking the signal and telling all the cars going through downtown areas that they're all going to turn left/right suddenly) It's tough. I don't like the cultural idea of letting computers control aspects of our lives. We're already starting to come to terms with it in things like AI-controlled content administration with Google (Youtube/Gmail), Facebook (New Feed "personalization", etc). I think inviting it into our physical world is going to bring up a lot of questions people didn't think they'd ever have to answer in their lives.
- x86x87 4y agoNever is a long time. I'm going to say that AGI will be able to drive a car. AGI is very far into the future but I would not say it's impossible.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- amanaplanacanal 4y agoI have suspected for a while that it might require AGI. I'm an old guy and don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoSelf-driving also won’t work in the Sierra desert, but no one expects it to. I think matching expectations with the varying definitions will be important moving forward.
- mint2 4y agoWhere is this “Sierra desert” do you mean Sahara?
- mensetmanusman 4y agoOh dictation keyboard
- gruturo 4y agoYesterday I had to drive at night in awfully intense rain and I was very close to stopping because it was at the very limit of acceptable safety for me. My night vision is not so good, cars in the opposite direction were blinding me with their headlights, and road markers become invisible in the rain in Germany (not in US or Italy, I don't know why this is so bad in Germany - different paint?). Self driving doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be better than me (including knowing when to stop!). Tesla isn't there, but I'm pretty sure they can get there in my lifetime. May be way way too late for the angry customers, the courts, the investors and the stock market, but it's not unreachable.
- jeffreygoesto 4y agoThe paint of the lines contains little glass beads that reflect your headlights back to you [0]. If the water film is higher than the part of the beads sticking out of the paint, the light bounces off further away from you. Maybe it also depends on the roughness of the asphalt of the surface gets uniformly wet or not? Bott's dots are better in that aspect but they stick out considerably... [0] https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1yRIhHpXXXXXUXFXXq6xXFXXXr/220937744/HTB1yRIhHpXXXXXUXFXXq6xXFXXXr.jpg https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1yRIhHpXXXXXUXFXXq6xXFXXXr/220...
- gruturo 4y agoMaybe Germany isn't using them? It doesn't take a heavy rain to make them practically disappear - which I haven't experienced elsewhere. But that was already a good starting point for some searches, thank you!
- mint2 4y agoIf the lanes positioning is determined by embedded stuff, roadwork that diverts/shifts lanes becomes more expensive and more time consuming
- blitzar 4y ago"Tesla's fully autonomous self-driving cars will be available by the end of the year" Elon Musk 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
- lelandfe 4y ago> Tesla did not immediately respond to requests for comment. It disbanded its media relations department in 2020 I’m veering off topic here (much like a bad autopilot, bazinga), but why would a company possibly want to disband this?
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThey just use Twitter
- pbw 4y agoElon thinks PR is "manipulating the press" and that Tesla is better off spending their time and energy on product development. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2021/06/07/is-it-smart-for-tesla-to-not-have-a-pr-department/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2021/06/07/...
- andsoitis 4y agoI wonder whether, if every hour he is on Twitter was rather spent on FSD, could they have solved by now?
- bognition 4y agoI have to guess that his time on twitter was a deliberate attempt to use social media to manipulate the stock price and he got good at it.
- dekhn 4y agonot they aren't fungible
- klyrs 4y agoHe's not an AI expert, he's a hustler. Time spent on twitter is time not spent pestering people doing the actual work.
- qsdf38100 4y agoManipulating the press is too out of fashion for Elon. He manipulates people directly from tweeter. No need for intermediates.
- ArekDymalski 4y agoI wonder why it took so many years? Is preparing a class action so time consuming or people were really hoping that Tesla will ship the promised AI to them?
- zamalek 4y ago> I wonder why it took so many years? Tesla recently turned it into an up-sell, instead of a free (beta) feature. It was $10000 when I was considering a Tesla.
- ender341341 4y agoIt's always been paid pre-order (though I think it used to be 6k instead)
- filoleg 4y agoThis is false. They recently added a subscription option (prior to that it was only available as a one-time buy), but it has always been an extra upcharge. It intentionally started at some initial pricepoint and then kept increasing the closer it gets to completion. Sorta like an early adopter discount. I remember it was around $7k in 2019, and it ramped up to around $10k in the present day.
- olliej 4y agoI'm sure preparation of such does take time, but I would guess that the CA DMV recently determining that Tesla's "Full Self Driving" is not, in fact, full self driving and banning trying to use it as such is the motivation. FSD costs a obscene amount of money for a feature that every Tesla clearly already supports, but as it has now been declared by the CA DMV to be not FSD, and therefore people cannot even consider using it, the purchasers quite reasonably want their refunded. Also it remains absurd to me that you can advertise a product for X, but then get out of liability by saying you do not guarantee it can be used for X. In the case of Tesla FSD it's both "full self driving" but also "the driver must remain in control of the vehicle at all times", but there are plenty of other examples you can produce.
- Axien 4y agoWhy not redesign highways so it is easy for self driving vehicles to follow? You could even have it set up that vehicles are only allowed to self drive when conditions are right. Maybe signage on the road itself enables or disable self driving. To me this feels like this could be done immediately, and at least we would have self driving for the most monotonous part of the driving experience, long hours of highway driving.
- slavik81 4y agoI recall seeing that option discussed on The Daily Planet with Jay Ingram back in the early 00s. They interviewed a research engineer on self-driving vehicles, probably in the context of the 2004 DARPA Grand Challenge. He'd clearly been working in the space for years and was very knowledgeable. IIRC, they had some very successful prototype road systems back in the 90s (or maybe earlier) that were based on implanting magnetic markers into the road at regular intervals. The big problem was cost. There's miles and miles of roads and the cost to upgrade and maintain enough miles was prohibitive. With that said, perhaps now that the cars themselves are 90% of the way there, the upgrades to the roadways could be more limited. I wonder if adding machine-readable markers to particularly important or problematic areas might be reasonable at this point.
- VerminOctopus1 4y agoSpending many, many billions of dollars on revamping public infrastructure for an unproven, nascent technology with functionally zero current adoption sounds absurd to me. Good luck convincing governments and the people that hold the purse strings.
- olliej 4y ago(1) it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to do that, and be of pretty much no use to the _vast_ majority of tax payers. Essentially it would be an enormous cost that would primarily be shouldered by people for whom it had no value. (2) all the things that "FSD" vehicles need are things that degrade quickly to the point where they don't work for said "FSD", so the highway maintenance costs would skyrocket (3) Even if you were to say the costs of 1&2 were reasonable, that money has to come from somewhere, and what that will essentially mean is that the already underfunded infrastructure will have even less funding for things that are the also already underfunded freeway things, so your normal streets end up in even worse condition, and based on existing spending the brunt of _that_ cost will be born by low income people. The cost for low income being exacerbated by their presumably cheaper and poorer condition cars taking more damage from poorly maintained roads, and so increasing their direct maintenance costs. (4) Fundamentally single car travel is an inefficient way to move people around, it simply does not scale as well as good public transport, and always will be: the amount of people a road system can transport is directly proportional to the area of the road that each person takes up, and cars are just not efficient. The average car is 8m^2 and in commute traffic the vast majority of them are single occupant, the average bus is ~30m^2. If we were extremely optimistic and assume an average of 2 people per car you have 4m^2/person vs 1m^2/person in a bus. This is excluding following distances, which if we were to include (say) 2m of following distance you get a conservative 3.5-4m^2 of additional wasted space so lets just say your total for a car is maybe 5m^2 per person. I think :D
- badtension 4y agoWhy do so many countries invest heavily in car-centric infrastructure and completely abandon public transit? Isn't transportation technically a solved problem already, with politics being the main obstacle? Sure, small populations in hard to reach places will still need to use cars but that's like what, 10% of all people? (at least in the EU)
- MisterSandman 4y agoPublic Transportation still has many issues, with the largest being it doesn't make enough money for the rich.
- blitzar 4y ago> largest being it doesn't make enough money for the rich Perhaps you have not been to one of the handfull of major metropolis in the world, where day in and day out worker drones get onto public transport to go sit in a cubicle and generate the majority of the money going around in circles in the world. A tiny fraction of that money goes into their pocket and they get on the subway and ride and hour with it. The lions share gets chucked into the trunk of the bently for 4 blocks ride home for the rich.