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I’d put the odds at about 95% that Adobe will ruin Figma with bloat, 14 different “Creative Cloud” background processes, and hostile pricing models within 5 yea

I’d put the odds at about 95% that Adobe will ruin Figma with bloat, 14 different “Creative Cloud” background processes, and hostile pricing models within 5 years. This is huge news for Sketch. However, to be honest, this is the type of acquisition that should be blocked IMO. Adobe is literally acquiring a direct competitor here. To me the consumer harm is pretty clear. Instead of a more competent org (Figma) growing further to disrupt more of Adobe’s business, we’re going to be stuck with Adobe forever. Great outcome for the founders and investors in Figma, terrible outcome for consumers.

baggiponte 4y ago
Totally agree I don’t get why antitrust gave the okay to this…
- Someone 4y ago
  Did they? Typically, the intent to merge comes before any anti-trust investigation.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Probably because anti-trust enforcement only seems to get involved when two already huge companies are involved.
  - pavlov 4y ago
    Nah, they just have different rules for different huge tech companies. FTC is blocking Meta’s acquisition of Within, the maker of a VR fitness app - an extremely niche product. Meanwhile Microsoft and Adobe seem confident that they can close on deals to buy Activision and Figma.
- kylemh 4y ago
  can antitrust prevent public companies from acquiring private companies?
  - atestu 4y ago
    yes. Whether they're public or private doesn't change anything about how competitive they are.
- lvzw 4y ago
  The antitrust agencies in the United States (FTC and DOJ) do not proactively give approval for companies to merge. After official merger filings have been made (which they have not in this case), the FTC or DOJ have a process in which they gather evidence and determine whether they have grounds to challenge the proposed merger. [1] [1] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/premerger-notification-merger-review-process https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
- dbbk 4y ago
  They haven't decided anything yet
- fblp 4y ago
  Anyone here can lodge this simple form and I'd encourage you to do so. Especially if you think this merger will substantially lesson competition and stifle innovation lodge a complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation At a minimum, they will investigate this and make inquiries (typically within months) if they see a high volume of complaints. See https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... For more info on the relevant law :)
  - dawsmik 4y ago
    1. Here is the email: antitrust@ftc.gov 2. It should include something similar the following (maybe a lawyer here, could help): a. Adobe acquiring Figma may violate anti-trust laws. b. These are the 2 dominate players in web design apps. There is very little competition elsewhere. c. I am a user and once they merge there is no viable competitor.
    - vgel 4y ago
      Sent, thank you. I also made sure to mention the "consumer harm" (keyword) of forcing consumers to engage with Adobe's predatory pricing model ("annual subscription billed monthly" bs)
kaladin-jasnah 4y ago
Sketch only works on macOS, though.
- ideamotor 4y ago
  Good news for Apple too.
  - bithavoc 4y ago
    Yeah, I feel Apple should acquire Sketch
    - ideamotor 4y ago
      Haven’t thought of that and you are 100% right. That said, knowing Apple, they probably have a great long term vision on graphical UI/UX design tooling that will either be great when it finally comes into being in 8 years, like M1, or we’ll never see it at all.
    - isnhp 4y ago
      I think it will happen, to combine with new Freeform.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  Sketch cloud displays sketch designs quite well. I wonder if they'll be able to turn it into a web editor eventually...
scrollaway 4y ago
> This is huge news for Sketch. Why, do they have an online editor yet? As a cto/admin/manager/hiring person: Sketch is worthless for me because I don't have a Mac. But because of that, my company does not use it: despite designers working on macOS, if I can't run it to look at their work and actively comment/collaborate with them, it's not a useful workflow. Therefore instead we hire people familiar with Figma (sadly, because I wanted to avoid giving Adobe money. Well, fuck, eh?)
- tomovo 4y ago
  They are hiring for people with WASM/Emscripten experience so I'd say there's something planned, even if only a more sophisticated viewer...
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    Let's hope. Sketch always seemed to be amazingly well-crafted software. I'd love an online version.
    - ktta 4y ago
      https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/benefits/ https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/benefits/ Looks like viewing in a browser is already available?
      - scrollaway 4y ago
        Interesting, I was not aware, I guess it's kinda new. Has anyone here used it and can give feedback on it?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- jstummbillig 4y ago
  > Why Because statistics. If you make one option less appealing (which is the presumption) all competitors will indirectly benefit, statistically, for various reasons, none of which might resonate with your specific personal needs.
_fat_santa 4y ago
I'm betting they will leave it alone, at least for a while. I'm sure the C suite at adobe is not blind to their reputation and they know that if they start tacking on "Adobe" features to Figma, user growth will stall out. Everyone is referencing the Macromedia purchase but I would argue that it was a very different kind of purchase. With that Adobe spent $3.4B acquiring them, in Figma's case they paid $20B. I could see how Adobe is willing to throw away $3.4B to kill their competition but I'm not sure they would be willing to do that to a $20B purchase. If anything they keep is exactly the same, kill Adobe XD, and rename Figma to Adobe XD.
- kristopolous 4y ago
  Oh sure they would. Have you ever dealt with the stupidity in the C-suite of a large corporation?
- neilk 4y ago
  Big company executives do not see the world the way you do. Creative Cloud alone has at least 5x the users of Figma. I have no idea how to even calculate all the users of all Adobe products. I guarantee that a lot of people at Adobe see Figma as just adorable, but not really, you know, a product. Some people at Adobe get it and are hoping to revolutionize their company with new blood, but… they probably won’t succeed. At big companies that have captured a large portion of the market, they are usually not interested in “disrupting” themselves. Steve Jobs was a rarity. There are far more attainable revenue and careers to be made optimizing the existing revenue streams. If killing Figma entirely made Creative Cloud revenue go up by a few percentage points that would be worth it for them. Even if the acquisition has negative value the people who pioneered it have more influence in their company, and an achievement that advances their career narrative. They may tell themselves they’re going to integrate Figma, and some people are going to definitely try, but if that doesn’t work out that’s probably fine.
- knicholes 4y ago
  I'm an Adobe employee, and I think that this is most likely what will happen. I think maybe the transition to web-first wasn't going as planned. I think that Adobe's going to move their features into Figma (integration with creative cloud assets, easy importing/exporting to other programs, collaboration workflows) and close out XD.

baggiponte 4y ago

Totally agree I don’t get why antitrust gave the okay to this…

Someone 4y ago
Did they? Typically, the intent to merge comes before any anti-trust investigation.
nicoburns 4y ago
Probably because anti-trust enforcement only seems to get involved when two already huge companies are involved.
- pavlov 4y ago
  Nah, they just have different rules for different huge tech companies. FTC is blocking Meta’s acquisition of Within, the maker of a VR fitness app - an extremely niche product. Meanwhile Microsoft and Adobe seem confident that they can close on deals to buy Activision and Figma.
kylemh 4y ago
can antitrust prevent public companies from acquiring private companies?
- atestu 4y ago
  yes. Whether they're public or private doesn't change anything about how competitive they are.
lvzw 4y ago
The antitrust agencies in the United States (FTC and DOJ) do not proactively give approval for companies to merge. After official merger filings have been made (which they have not in this case), the FTC or DOJ have a process in which they gather evidence and determine whether they have grounds to challenge the proposed merger. [1] [1] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/premerger-notification-merger-review-process https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
dbbk 4y ago
They haven't decided anything yet
fblp 4y ago
Anyone here can lodge this simple form and I'd encourage you to do so. Especially if you think this merger will substantially lesson competition and stifle innovation lodge a complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation At a minimum, they will investigate this and make inquiries (typically within months) if they see a high volume of complaints. See https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... For more info on the relevant law :)
- dawsmik 4y ago
  1. Here is the email: antitrust@ftc.gov 2. It should include something similar the following (maybe a lawyer here, could help): a. Adobe acquiring Figma may violate anti-trust laws. b. These are the 2 dominate players in web design apps. There is very little competition elsewhere. c. I am a user and once they merge there is no viable competitor.
  - vgel 4y ago
    Sent, thank you. I also made sure to mention the "consumer harm" (keyword) of forcing consumers to engage with Adobe's predatory pricing model ("annual subscription billed monthly" bs)

kaladin-jasnah 4y ago

Sketch only works on macOS, though.

ideamotor 4y ago
Good news for Apple too.
- bithavoc 4y ago
  Yeah, I feel Apple should acquire Sketch
  - ideamotor 4y ago
    Haven’t thought of that and you are 100% right. That said, knowing Apple, they probably have a great long term vision on graphical UI/UX design tooling that will either be great when it finally comes into being in 8 years, like M1, or we’ll never see it at all.
  - isnhp 4y ago
    I think it will happen, to combine with new Freeform.
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
Sketch cloud displays sketch designs quite well. I wonder if they'll be able to turn it into a web editor eventually...

scrollaway 4y ago

> This is huge news for Sketch. Why, do they have an online editor yet? As a cto/admin/manager/hiring person: Sketch is worthless for me because I don't have a Mac. But because of that, my company does not use it: despite designers working on macOS, if I can't run it to look at their work and actively comment/collaborate with them, it's not a useful workflow. Therefore instead we hire people familiar with Figma (sadly, because I wanted to avoid giving Adobe money. Well, fuck, eh?)

tomovo 4y ago
They are hiring for people with WASM/Emscripten experience so I'd say there's something planned, even if only a more sophisticated viewer...
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Let's hope. Sketch always seemed to be amazingly well-crafted software. I'd love an online version.
  - ktta 4y ago
    https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/benefits/ https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/benefits/ Looks like viewing in a browser is already available?
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      Interesting, I was not aware, I guess it's kinda new. Has anyone here used it and can give feedback on it?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
jstummbillig 4y ago
> Why Because statistics. If you make one option less appealing (which is the presumption) all competitors will indirectly benefit, statistically, for various reasons, none of which might resonate with your specific personal needs.

_fat_santa 4y ago

I'm betting they will leave it alone, at least for a while. I'm sure the C suite at adobe is not blind to their reputation and they know that if they start tacking on "Adobe" features to Figma, user growth will stall out. Everyone is referencing the Macromedia purchase but I would argue that it was a very different kind of purchase. With that Adobe spent $3.4B acquiring them, in Figma's case they paid $20B. I could see how Adobe is willing to throw away $3.4B to kill their competition but I'm not sure they would be willing to do that to a $20B purchase. If anything they keep is exactly the same, kill Adobe XD, and rename Figma to Adobe XD.

kristopolous 4y ago
Oh sure they would. Have you ever dealt with the stupidity in the C-suite of a large corporation?
neilk 4y ago
Big company executives do not see the world the way you do. Creative Cloud alone has at least 5x the users of Figma. I have no idea how to even calculate all the users of all Adobe products. I guarantee that a lot of people at Adobe see Figma as just adorable, but not really, you know, a product. Some people at Adobe get it and are hoping to revolutionize their company with new blood, but… they probably won’t succeed. At big companies that have captured a large portion of the market, they are usually not interested in “disrupting” themselves. Steve Jobs was a rarity. There are far more attainable revenue and careers to be made optimizing the existing revenue streams. If killing Figma entirely made Creative Cloud revenue go up by a few percentage points that would be worth it for them. Even if the acquisition has negative value the people who pioneered it have more influence in their company, and an achievement that advances their career narrative. They may tell themselves they’re going to integrate Figma, and some people are going to definitely try, but if that doesn’t work out that’s probably fine.
knicholes 4y ago
I'm an Adobe employee, and I think that this is most likely what will happen. I think maybe the transition to web-first wasn't going as planned. I think that Adobe's going to move their features into Figma (integration with creative cloud assets, easy importing/exporting to other programs, collaboration workflows) and close out XD.