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The first problem that cryptocurrency solves is, how can to securely make transactions without giving away our secrets such as critical account numbers. It acco

by ilaksh 4y ago

The first problem that cryptocurrency solves is, how can to securely make transactions without giving away our secrets such as critical account numbers. It accomplishes this using cryptographic signatures. Other systems that do not use cryptography and instead often rely on trust in exchanging critical secrets, such as how the banking system generally works, are outdated.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
silisili 4y ago
There are a plethora of transfer systems in the banking world that do the same, assuming you are talking about ACH info. Venmo, Cashapp, Paypal et al. You could argue the intermediary knows the info, but most crypto buyers also use an intermediary.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Venmo, cashapp, and PayPal all have geographic restrictions (only one of those works where I live), and also pretty shit reputations - PayPal routinely just dicks its users and freezes their funds indefinitely. Crypto doesn't give a shit about borders, there's no intermediary who can freeze your assets (unless you decide to leave them on am exchange), etc.
  - Melchori 4y ago
    This is not a new feature of crypto. It's ignorance. You can easily do that with other tech. Crypto right now is just to new to have been properly regulated yet. And while you are true that you can run your own wallet, you are depending on the decentralized network, you do need a certain amount of stabity and you need to make sure you can recover and keep your wallet. Enough people demonstrated at least with the last point and millions lost in locked away wallets that there are still fundamental problems.
    - SamPatt 4y ago
      You cannot easily make payments to or from certain places, or based on certain activities, with the dominant payment technologies. Yes, this is due to regulations, but it's also due to the centralized nature of the technology which requires permission to use. Even when more regulation is forced onto cryptocurrencies, the architecture will always be permissionless, as it's a decentralized network. That is a fundamental difference.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Melchori 4y ago
        You can't do that with crypto either. Because you actually need to convert your Fiat into crypto first. The current limitations are real and the theoretical possibility is equally good of what currently exist: a black market. In Iran everyone took euros or exchanged them on the spot. Even when the currency shop was closed people were waiting outside for us
asadlionpk 4y ago
Umm can’t I do the same via paypal, without giving away my password? What feature does cryptography give me here?
- yellowapple 4y ago
  You might want to ask the folks behind Flipper Zero how relying on PayPal worked out for them: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/flipper-zero-paypal/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/flipper-zero-paypal/
  - egeozcan 4y ago
    How can you do any transactions at all without trusted intermediaries? You have to trust government, banks, paypal... something. Or you can start trusting the individuals at the other side of the transaction. Perhaps these folks who do not have experience can also benefit from your exp... Oh wait, you've become an intermediary? Cryptocurrency is just an asset that you can sell nearly everywhere in the world. But it depends on electricity, is volatile in value, and has long transaction times. It's just an inferior cash, except the fact that it's not physical so border control can't take it away from you. If you are optimizing for that... Maybe there can be a simpler solution? Buy art shares? I don't know.
    - grog454 4y ago
      > You have to trust government, banks, paypal... something. In the case of crypto you're trusting that an adversary won't be able to control 50% of the computation power on the network for a substantial amount of time (and cryptographic theories, but you're trusting those whenever you use the internet anyway). Generally you're not even trusting the other party. Yes, it depends on electricity, but so does 95%+ of the modern economy. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2003-blackout-five-years-later https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2003-blackout-fiv...
      - egeozcan 4y ago
        You trust in the sense that you will get the services/products that you paid for.
AgentME 4y ago
I'm a fan of cryptocurrency but I don't think this is a great description of it. Its primary goal is finding a way to make transactions work, given that you don't want to involve a central authority. Cryptocurrency works the way it works specifically because of that desire to work without a central authority. It's perfectly possible to create payment systems involving cryptographic signatures involving a central authority (with the downsides a central authority involves).
- Tao3300 4y ago
  > Cryptocurrency works the way it works specifically because of that desire to work without a central authority. The word works is doing a lot of work there. Every compromise, hack, scam, theft, and weird "oops I sent the crypto to an address that doesn't exist and now it's gone forever" incident screams for central authority. Even what we call Ethereum is a rage-quit to pretend the DAO thing didn't happen.
lxgr 4y ago
> to securely make transactions without giving away our secrets such as critical account numbers This describes any "push" payment system where you instruct your bank, service provider, wallet, device etc. to transfer funds, rather than providing the payee with your information, as well as any pull-based system with additional verification (such as 3DS and PIN-based payment cards), and isn't unique to crypto at all.

by ilaksh 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

silisili 4y ago

There are a plethora of transfer systems in the banking world that do the same, assuming you are talking about ACH info. Venmo, Cashapp, Paypal et al. You could argue the intermediary knows the info, but most crypto buyers also use an intermediary.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
Venmo, cashapp, and PayPal all have geographic restrictions (only one of those works where I live), and also pretty shit reputations - PayPal routinely just dicks its users and freezes their funds indefinitely. Crypto doesn't give a shit about borders, there's no intermediary who can freeze your assets (unless you decide to leave them on am exchange), etc.
- Melchori 4y ago
  This is not a new feature of crypto. It's ignorance. You can easily do that with other tech. Crypto right now is just to new to have been properly regulated yet. And while you are true that you can run your own wallet, you are depending on the decentralized network, you do need a certain amount of stabity and you need to make sure you can recover and keep your wallet. Enough people demonstrated at least with the last point and millions lost in locked away wallets that there are still fundamental problems.
  - SamPatt 4y ago
    You cannot easily make payments to or from certain places, or based on certain activities, with the dominant payment technologies. Yes, this is due to regulations, but it's also due to the centralized nature of the technology which requires permission to use. Even when more regulation is forced onto cryptocurrencies, the architecture will always be permissionless, as it's a decentralized network. That is a fundamental difference.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Melchori 4y ago
      You can't do that with crypto either. Because you actually need to convert your Fiat into crypto first. The current limitations are real and the theoretical possibility is equally good of what currently exist: a black market. In Iran everyone took euros or exchanged them on the spot. Even when the currency shop was closed people were waiting outside for us

asadlionpk 4y ago

Umm can’t I do the same via paypal, without giving away my password? What feature does cryptography give me here?

yellowapple 4y ago
You might want to ask the folks behind Flipper Zero how relying on PayPal worked out for them: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/flipper-zero-paypal/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/flipper-zero-paypal/
- egeozcan 4y ago
  How can you do any transactions at all without trusted intermediaries? You have to trust government, banks, paypal... something. Or you can start trusting the individuals at the other side of the transaction. Perhaps these folks who do not have experience can also benefit from your exp... Oh wait, you've become an intermediary? Cryptocurrency is just an asset that you can sell nearly everywhere in the world. But it depends on electricity, is volatile in value, and has long transaction times. It's just an inferior cash, except the fact that it's not physical so border control can't take it away from you. If you are optimizing for that... Maybe there can be a simpler solution? Buy art shares? I don't know.
  - grog454 4y ago
    > You have to trust government, banks, paypal... something. In the case of crypto you're trusting that an adversary won't be able to control 50% of the computation power on the network for a substantial amount of time (and cryptographic theories, but you're trusting those whenever you use the internet anyway). Generally you're not even trusting the other party. Yes, it depends on electricity, but so does 95%+ of the modern economy. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2003-blackout-five-years-later https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2003-blackout-fiv...
    - egeozcan 4y ago
      You trust in the sense that you will get the services/products that you paid for.

AgentME 4y ago

I'm a fan of cryptocurrency but I don't think this is a great description of it. Its primary goal is finding a way to make transactions work, given that you don't want to involve a central authority. Cryptocurrency works the way it works specifically because of that desire to work without a central authority. It's perfectly possible to create payment systems involving cryptographic signatures involving a central authority (with the downsides a central authority involves).

Tao3300 4y ago
> Cryptocurrency works the way it works specifically because of that desire to work without a central authority. The word works is doing a lot of work there. Every compromise, hack, scam, theft, and weird "oops I sent the crypto to an address that doesn't exist and now it's gone forever" incident screams for central authority. Even what we call Ethereum is a rage-quit to pretend the DAO thing didn't happen.

lxgr 4y ago

> to securely make transactions without giving away our secrets such as critical account numbers This describes any "push" payment system where you instruct your bank, service provider, wallet, device etc. to transfer funds, rather than providing the payee with your information, as well as any pull-based system with additional verification (such as 3DS and PIN-based payment cards), and isn't unique to crypto at all.