4 ms·

Crypto finance is no different than regular finance. Same products, same mechanisms within those products, etc just without any regulation. And now people are s

Crypto finance is no different than regular finance. Same products, same mechanisms within those products, etc just without any regulation. And now people are starting to understand why regulations exist.

joebamabidack 4y ago
False. Crypto finance cant be shut down, your wallet frozen or transaction charged back. Regulations exist to strip you from your rights. China regulated bitcoin mining, well now its banned there.
- rco8786 4y ago
  > Regulations exist to strip you from your rights. I know it’s easy to think that. But the vast majority of financial regulations exist to protect the little guy from the big guy in any given transaction or financial relationship. I’ll let you discern which one you tend to be as the consumer.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    OK, but I don't want the protection. Where's my option to opt out and risk it? I'm fine with signing a document saying "without KYC and AML, and banking and other regulations evil bastard terrorists may rob me blind." Whatever, lets got on with it, I want my wildcat banking, and yes I understand why other people think I shouldn't.
    - rco8786 4y ago
      I’m not sure, probably nowhere. Not enough people dumb enough to want that to make it happen. Not really relevant though.
    - eyegor 4y ago
      Just keep all your funds in online crypto exchanges and bounce transactions through mixers. You'll have the zero protections you desire.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      Why do you want that?
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      The protections aren't just for you. They're also for the impact your actions have on everyone else. You may not care about money laundering, but most Americans do, so it's regulated.
      - cercatrova 4y ago
        > but most Americans do, so it's regulated. I'm not a cryptocurrency supporter, but I'd like to see any surveys about this because I highly doubt the average American cares or even thinks about money laundering.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        If I asked the average American if they were ok with government scrutiny of their bank account I seriously doubt they would agree with you. As some purely theoretical argument about stopping al capone from washing money he's paying to hitmen or something I'd sure they'd agree, but when it comes to the nitty gritty like not being able to open a bank account without an address or a report being written up because they pulled $11k out to buy a used car I think it's doubtful. I'd really like to see your survey showing Americans support AML laws as written. In fact, Chevron Deference has resulted in many policies being implemented without the majority of even _representatives_ agreeing on a policy, let alone the majority of the public.
    - nhinck2 4y ago
      I want to be able to fire my guns indiscriminately in the air.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        And yet somehow we've survived despite the fact you can legally obtain a gun in most states without an ID, address, or any background check whatsoever and no real monitoring of what you do with it. And buying 10k bullets doesn't even trigger a report. I can get a gun with just cash in hand without violating the law, but not a freaking bank account. If I can be trusted with a fucking AK/AR without checks and my state will let me conceal a revolver in my waistband without any proof of anything or documents whatsoever, I ought to be trusted to be able to open a damn account with my passport but no address, on the basis of which multiple banks have refused me because apparently not being able to furnish an address didn't let them satisfy their KYC rules. At least one of those banks would have allowed me (by both policy and law) to conceal a gun in the damn bank but not open an account (LMAO)!!!
- progman32 4y ago
  > Crypto finance cant be shut down But the comment also states > China regulated bitcoin mining, well now its banned there. I think that's an example of shutting down crypto finance. I think I'm not understanding your argument.
skybrian 4y ago
Yes, for many there are no advantages, but I think this goes too far. For example, playing people interest to keep a ledger seems kind of new?
- rsaxvc 4y ago
  I'm not a finance person, but I think that was roughly how traditional banks paid themselves.
- imtringued 4y ago
  Paying people interest created out of thin air is kind of new. Usually there is a borrower on the other side.
  - skybrian 4y ago
    You might compare with a stock dividend or with paying employees with company stock. A company can create more stock and pay it out without using any cash. When converting to cash, it's still the case that for every seller there needs to be a buyer.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
That's the problem plaguing cryptocurrencies today. These exchanges are literally banks in disguise, all the risks and no guarantees. Cryptocurrencies were supposed to put an end that sort of centralized institution, not reinvent the entire financial system poorly...
imtringued 4y ago
Almost all cryptolending is overcollateralized which is unheard of in traditional banking. I mean banks take your house as a collateral, they don't take one house and a quarter of a house as collateral for borrowing a single house.
- rco8786 4y ago
  Yea my point is more along the lines of crypto would call this like “staking” instead of “collateral” and act like they’ve invented a new financial concept.

joebamabidack 4y ago

False. Crypto finance cant be shut down, your wallet frozen or transaction charged back. Regulations exist to strip you from your rights. China regulated bitcoin mining, well now its banned there.

rco8786 4y ago
> Regulations exist to strip you from your rights. I know it’s easy to think that. But the vast majority of financial regulations exist to protect the little guy from the big guy in any given transaction or financial relationship. I’ll let you discern which one you tend to be as the consumer.
- notch656a 4y ago
  OK, but I don't want the protection. Where's my option to opt out and risk it? I'm fine with signing a document saying "without KYC and AML, and banking and other regulations evil bastard terrorists may rob me blind." Whatever, lets got on with it, I want my wildcat banking, and yes I understand why other people think I shouldn't.
  - rco8786 4y ago
    I’m not sure, probably nowhere. Not enough people dumb enough to want that to make it happen. Not really relevant though.
  - eyegor 4y ago
    Just keep all your funds in online crypto exchanges and bounce transactions through mixers. You'll have the zero protections you desire.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Why do you want that?
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    The protections aren't just for you. They're also for the impact your actions have on everyone else. You may not care about money laundering, but most Americans do, so it's regulated.
    - cercatrova 4y ago
      > but most Americans do, so it's regulated. I'm not a cryptocurrency supporter, but I'd like to see any surveys about this because I highly doubt the average American cares or even thinks about money laundering.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      If I asked the average American if they were ok with government scrutiny of their bank account I seriously doubt they would agree with you. As some purely theoretical argument about stopping al capone from washing money he's paying to hitmen or something I'd sure they'd agree, but when it comes to the nitty gritty like not being able to open a bank account without an address or a report being written up because they pulled $11k out to buy a used car I think it's doubtful. I'd really like to see your survey showing Americans support AML laws as written. In fact, Chevron Deference has resulted in many policies being implemented without the majority of even _representatives_ agreeing on a policy, let alone the majority of the public.
  - nhinck2 4y ago
    I want to be able to fire my guns indiscriminately in the air.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      And yet somehow we've survived despite the fact you can legally obtain a gun in most states without an ID, address, or any background check whatsoever and no real monitoring of what you do with it. And buying 10k bullets doesn't even trigger a report. I can get a gun with just cash in hand without violating the law, but not a freaking bank account. If I can be trusted with a fucking AK/AR without checks and my state will let me conceal a revolver in my waistband without any proof of anything or documents whatsoever, I ought to be trusted to be able to open a damn account with my passport but no address, on the basis of which multiple banks have refused me because apparently not being able to furnish an address didn't let them satisfy their KYC rules. At least one of those banks would have allowed me (by both policy and law) to conceal a gun in the damn bank but not open an account (LMAO)!!!
progman32 4y ago
> Crypto finance cant be shut down But the comment also states > China regulated bitcoin mining, well now its banned there. I think that's an example of shutting down crypto finance. I think I'm not understanding your argument.

skybrian 4y ago

Yes, for many there are no advantages, but I think this goes too far. For example, playing people interest to keep a ledger seems kind of new?

rsaxvc 4y ago
I'm not a finance person, but I think that was roughly how traditional banks paid themselves.
imtringued 4y ago
Paying people interest created out of thin air is kind of new. Usually there is a borrower on the other side.
- skybrian 4y ago
  You might compare with a stock dividend or with paying employees with company stock. A company can create more stock and pay it out without using any cash. When converting to cash, it's still the case that for every seller there needs to be a buyer.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

That's the problem plaguing cryptocurrencies today. These exchanges are literally banks in disguise, all the risks and no guarantees. Cryptocurrencies were supposed to put an end that sort of centralized institution, not reinvent the entire financial system poorly...

imtringued 4y ago

Almost all cryptolending is overcollateralized which is unheard of in traditional banking. I mean banks take your house as a collateral, they don't take one house and a quarter of a house as collateral for borrowing a single house.

rco8786 4y ago
Yea my point is more along the lines of crypto would call this like “staking” instead of “collateral” and act like they’ve invented a new financial concept.